Do you actually know someone who was vaccine injured?

↑ Genius ↓

Mon, Jul 08 2019, 11:50 am

amother [ Crimson ] wrote:

Except there is zero plausible explanation for how sour sticks would cause seizures, but very many well understood mechanisms via which vaccines would cause seizures. Not to mention that vaccine manufacturers themselves admit that some vaccines can and do cause seizures, and listed on the inserts.

Well understood?

amother

↑ cornflower ↓

Mon, Jul 08 2019, 11:53 am

amother [ Bisque ] wrote:

There are several studies that are worrying.

But more than this, the burden of proof should be on the government who is mandating them, or the vaccine manufacturers.

With ALL medication, especially injections, and all the more so MANDATED injections, they should be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt to be overall safe, both in the short and long term, PRIOR to forcing their use.

I think that a lot of the backlash against vaccines is due to the fact that this was never done.

Is your recommendation to the government that for every new vaccine they inject it into a population of children and wait until they are 90 before adding it to the vaccine schedule?

amother

↑ Teal

Mon, Jul 08 2019, 11:57 am

amother [ Bronze ] wrote:

Dr Deisher writes that her solution is to remove fetal cell lines from vaccines, the way they have in Japan. I'm asking how it's a valid solution when it has not affected autism rates in Japan.

Look, I asked you to list known toxins in vaccines, since you wrote that they are linked with brain disorders. First you bring studies discussing aluminum and thimerosal, which are not found in the MMR altogether. Then you bring Dr Deishers hypothesis on fetal cell lines, which have been removed from vaccines in Japan without noticeable effects. Hgow does any of this support the many stories on this thread of a child receiving the MMR and immediately suffering neurological damage? There's no aluminum. There's no thimerosal. There is fetal cell DNA, but why does it affect American children so dramatically and not Japanese children?

According to the Japan study the rate of autism initially dropped and then rose. You can look at the graph.

amother

↑ Bronze ↓

Mon, Jul 08 2019, 12:02 pm

Just out of curiosity, with an intro like this:

The “science” from medical journals presented to courts is not reliable. The medical “science” evidence-base has become institutionally and systemically corrupt since US President Ronald Reagan introduced the Bayh-Dole Act in the 1980’s : [“Doctors Without Borders – Why you can’t trust medical journals anymore” by Shannon Brownlee, Washington Monthly].

Mainstream medical journals live off drug company advertising. Government health officials, drug company lobbyists and medical professionals tell us: it is “science” and “proof” when it is not.

Isn't it somewhat hypocritical that anti vaxxers use any mainstream scientific research as evidence?

southernbubby ↓

Mon, Jul 08 2019, 12:15 pm

amother [ Bisque ] wrote:

Nothing is safe for everyone which is why doctors always ask if the patient has any allergies to medication.
Mandated vaccination existed in the US when it still belonged to the British. Yes it was only one and I don't know how many colonists had autism but it has been in medical literature since 1911.
This is one situation where drilling a hole under your seat in the boat sinks it for everyone else. Basically you would have to convince the rest of society to give up any expectations of a disease free life in order to grant the freedom to choose and I don't see that happening.

And my son had seizures for 2 years starting a few hours after his second dose of flu shot at age 5. Because there were no active outbreaks, the doctors would not give him any more vaccines. I have posted about that before.

amother

↑ Denim ↓

Mon, Jul 08 2019, 12:44 pm

amother [ Crimson ] wrote:

I could easily blame it on the sudden rise of blood sugar or the food coloring (we say both impact the brains of kids with ADHD so why not seizures?)

↑ southernbubby ↓

Mon, Jul 08 2019, 12:57 pm

amother [ Denim ] wrote:

I could easily blame it on the sudden rise of blood sugar or the food coloring (we say both impact the brains of kids with ADHD so why not seizures?)

Don't rapidly moving arcade and video games and images cause seizures in some people?

amother

↑ Bisque ↓

Mon, Jul 08 2019, 12:57 pm

amother denim wrote:

I could easily blame it on the sudden rise of blood sugar or the food coloring (we say both impact the brains of kids with ADHD so why not seizures?)

Yes, that is one reason why many natural-minded people avoid junk food and artificial coloring. There are various studies which demonstrate behavioral changes after eating them, and many diets that specifically avoid them.

But that doesn't mean that we shouldn't ALSO look into vaccines as a possible cause of autoimmune issues or developmental delays. ESPECIALLY if you are essentially forcing everyone to take them, required ongoing research into their safety should be obvious.

I don't know anyone that thinks that autism, epilepsy, etc. have only one possible cause. But we SHOULD be trying to investigate what the possible causes are. Studying many possible causes concurrently is even better. Do results implicate pesticides, food additives, environmental issues, or medications?

If the studies prove definitively that vaccines play no part, wonderful. It would certainly get me to rethink my "only MMR and only after 2 years" stance.

sympa ↓

Mon, Jul 08 2019, 1:12 pm

amother [ Bisque ] wrote:

They trigger seizures, but they don't cause epilepsy.

Just like vaccines.

Couldn't actually tell from your post whether you were being ironic (pro-vax) or just walked into that one by accident.

↑ sympa ↓

Mon, Jul 08 2019, 1:23 pm

amother [ Bisque ] wrote:

If the studies prove definitively that vaccines play no part, wonderful. It would certainly get me to rethink my "only MMR and only after 2 years" stance.

Are you talking about autism or seizures or ADHD?

And, there have been studies that prove the overall safety of vaccines, comparing the overall risks vs benefits... but there's a whole anti-vax world out there that tries to tell people that anecdotes are more reliable than statistics based science.

amother

↑ Bisque ↓

Mon, Jul 08 2019, 1:28 pm

sympa wrote:

I'm talking about long-term health. Autoimmune, developmental, cancers. Doing a retrospective longitudinal study that observes an vaccinated vs. partially vaccinated vs. non-vaccinated population using the USA vaccine schedule over 50+ years. This would need to be a large enough study to catch rare complications. As someone pointed out on this board, the measles complications we are up in arms about are 1/1000 or 1/10,000, so a study that size would be interesting but not necessarily definitive in proving safety.

amother

↑ Bronze ↓

Mon, Jul 08 2019, 1:32 pm

amother [ Bisque ] wrote:

1. This would not prove anything definitively, as you suggested in an earlier post.

2. I mentioned earlier that the unvaxxed population is way too small for statistically relevant results.

Oh! And really, the anti vaxxers for the most part don't trust mainstream studies. So why bother?

↑ sympa ↓

Mon, Jul 08 2019, 1:37 pm

amother [ Silver ] wrote:

Any more proof that measles causes encephalitis? Why do you believe that one?
In my case I was in my 20s at the time of a booster and I developed symptoms of a chronic debilitating condition shortly after. Is it possible I would have gotten it anyway and timing was just coincidence? Sure! But there are several studies linking the two. I don't believe it was coincidence.

Just curious why you believe the several studies linking your chronic condition with the vaccine (which, by the way, I'm sorry to hear you're in the small percentage of people who have personal experience with these known side effects) but you don't believe the studies that show that the measles cause encephalitis? Nor the studies that vaccines don't cause encephalitis?

↑ sympa ↓

Mon, Jul 08 2019, 1:39 pm

amother [ Bronze ] wrote:

2. I mentioned earlier that the unvaxxed population is way too small for statistically relevant results.

I'm not sure why people say this. There are many studies comparing vaccinated vs non-vaccinated.

amother

↑ cornflower ↓

Mon, Jul 08 2019, 1:42 pm

amother [ Bisque ] wrote:

Go for it!

amother

↑ Bronze ↓

Mon, Jul 08 2019, 1:46 pm

sympa wrote:

I'm not sure why people say this. There are many studies comparing vaccinated vs non-vaccinated.

Not a restrospective longitudinal study that looks at all the factors she mentioned, as far as I'm aware? I believe the study size would need to be much larger than the available population.