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amother
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 Wed, Jun 19 2019, 3:41 am
| amother [ Lemon ] wrote: | Well, then, Blonde, can you name these gedolim? Because so far, nobody has. However, many well known and leading rabbanim, when asked, have said it's ok. I refer to Rabbi Adlerstein's essays on this topic.I
And, no, I'm not "desperate" to see pics of women. I just dislike the lack of honesty and obfuscation on this topic. The mags are trying to have it both ways, but won't admit the money being the deciding factor. |
I will not name these gedolim since I do not want you to start bashing any. You guys always have what to say on everything that is not your shita.
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amother
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Wed, Jun 19 2019, 3:43 am
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That just confirms they are not mainstream rabbanim, then. All righty. More obfuscation. The mags are bought by the masses, you know.
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amother
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Wed, Jun 19 2019, 3:47 am
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So what do they say about pics of 6 year old girls?
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amother
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Wed, Jun 19 2019, 4:08 am
| amother [ Lemon ] wrote: |
And when people tried justifying the refusal to have innocent pics of little girls, and refused to admit how absolutely perverted and sick that is, that was the absolute worst. That's the real reason for any supposed bashing: cloaking greed and warped values behind piety. |
When did mishpacha ever omit pictures of little girls.
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amother
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Wed, Jun 19 2019, 4:11 am
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Mishpacha Jr has had a disclaimer as far back as I remember in the kids photo section that they do not publish photos of girls over the age of 5. Maybe that was deleted more recently, due to complaints of how creepy of a statement it is.
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amother
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Wed, Jun 19 2019, 7:20 am
| Quote: | I'm not sure where your guidelines come from but I salute you for having guidelines.
I suspect many magazine readers would find them problematic. And would appreciate a paper having rabbinic guidance to set policy and help with judgment calls. |
We did speak with our Rav regarding what policies we should have, and followed his guidance. They were reflective of where we live - which isn't New York. Regarding judgment calls, we didn't bother the Rav with them since we're capable of applying the guidelines the Rav suggested and don't need to interrupt his learning about every little thing. I suppose if there had been something major we would have, but there wasn't really anything major. It was more subtle things that were a matter of sensitivity.
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Forrealx
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Wed, Jun 19 2019, 7:34 am
Yeah, there are pictures of little girls who are posing as adults but that is no argument whether a frum magazine should post pictures of women or not.
In a frum magazine, we won't see advertensioals about pork meat or a car with a girl with a mini skirt hanging over it.
So yeah we will see if women where allowed, women who are tzniusdik we have faces. You see women on the street, in the grocery store, women picking up their kinderlach from school. Think about the other slippery slope, that we need to be chained in our houses like women in Afghanistan and walk with a burka because we lead men to sin... That you get acid attacks to women that is the other slipperly slope. Hashem loves women, Dvora was a judge, Boriah was a talmida chachama the daughters of Rashi where well schooled teach that. Talk about that. Like I'm big chested that is how hashem makes me and with my high collar and tznius clothing am I still leading to sin? It is a men choiche to be attracted to that not mine. Should I go to a plastic surgeon to cut my chest of? Am I then more holy?
Pluuues
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rzab
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Wed, Jun 19 2019, 8:18 am
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If mishpacha starts printing pics of women, I'll subscribe. Keep us none readers posted so we know when to show our support!
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PinkFridge
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Wed, Jun 19 2019, 8:19 am
| amother [ Mistyrose ] wrote: | | Quote: | I'm not sure where your guidelines come from but I salute you for having guidelines.
I suspect many magazine readers would find them problematic. And would appreciate a paper having rabbinic guidance to set policy and help with judgment calls. |
We did speak with our Rav regarding what policies we should have, and followed his guidance. They were reflective of where we live - which isn't New York. Regarding judgment calls, we didn't bother the Rav with them since we're capable of applying the guidelines the Rav suggested and don't need to interrupt his learning about every little thing. I suppose if there had been something major we would have, but there wasn't really anything major. It was more subtle things that were a matter of sensitivity. |
Kol hakavod. And I wouldn't cancel my subscription. But I don't think those standards could be adopted by the mags in question.
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gold2
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Wed, Jun 19 2019, 8:45 am
| Forrealx wrote: | Yeah, there are pictures of little girls who are posing as adults but that is no argument whether a frum magazine should post pictures of women or not.
In a frum magazine, we won't see advertensioals about pork meat or a car with a girl with a mini skirt hanging over it.
So yeah we will see if women where allowed, women who are tzniusdik we have faces. You see women on the street, in the grocery store, women picking up their kinderlach from school. Think about the other slippery slope, that we need to be chained in our houses like women in Afghanistan and walk with a burka because we lead men to sin... That you get acid attacks to women that is the other slipperly slope. Hashem loves women, Dvora was a judge, Boriah was a talmida chachama the daughters of Rashi where well schooled teach that. Talk about that. Like I'm big chested that is how hashem makes me and with my high collar and tznius clothing am I still leading to sin? It is a men choiche to be attracted to that not mine. Should I go to a plastic surgeon to cut my chest of? Am I then more holy?
Pluuues |
Hashem loves women but why does that mean I have to have my picture posted? I know my own worth and don't need to be looked at in order to be seen. Yes you can argues that there can be modest pictures but who is going to define that? Especially with the way women are posing nowadays needing to show themselves off for everyone to see them!
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amother
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Wed, Jun 19 2019, 9:10 am
| gold2 wrote: | | Hashem loves women but why does that mean I have to have my picture posted? I know my own worth and don't need to be looked at in order to be seen. Yes you can argues that there can be modest pictures but who is going to define that? Especially with the way women are posing nowadays needing to show themselves off for everyone to see them! |
So that's precisely why we need to show our girls proper role models! With the way these things are pushed into society nowadays, our girls will come across these poses one way or the other. Shouldn't they have the counterbalance to show them what's right?
Our girls are only giving abstract details about their role models and people they should look up to. We encourage our boys to look at Rebbes & Tzadikim, but we give our girls nothing concrete for them to connect to. It's very nice to read nice stories about the wonderful women in our community, but there's no everlasting image they can imprint in their minds.
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amother
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Wed, Jun 19 2019, 9:23 am
| amother [ Yellow ] wrote: | I believe that pictures of women should not be in a magazine - for the following reason:
Yes, it starts off with a picture of a women properly dressed, modest etc. but as time goes on those lines may get blurred and slowly it's hard to draw the line. Ex: they put in a picture of a chushuv rebbetzin on her yartzeit, but then when someone else who was not properly dressed has a yartzeit, the family will feel insulted if her picture isn't included and so the magazine is pressured. Or a company that is a regular advertiser wants to put in a picture of a model that isn't so ok, the magazine may not be able to say no.
Yes, it would be nice to be able to only include proper pictures, but this world is very political and over time you can be sure that the standards will be lowered.
It is a lot safer to make a blanket rule of "no women" then to get into these issues. |
First - Faces are never considered non-tznius. So what's the problem with printing headshots?
Second - This approach is not the Torah'dig way. No blanket rules apply to majority of situations. There is a middle way approach for those situations. Taking in consideration everything that pertains to the situation and acting accordingly is the preferred way. Saying no, and blanket assurim are the easy way out & its not praiseworthy at all imo. If you want to consider slippery slopes, saying no to everything is just one type of that slope. A perfect example of where someone may end up going down this route - Lev Tahor.
Third - This is private company, they retain the right to just say no.
Fourth - Expecting society to accommodate the most strictest standards is absurd. If you have strict standards, then you deal with it. Don't boycott, don't threaten companies & don't hurt people in the process. You can just not buy the magazine, buy the magazine and throw out the Family First pages, or you can take a marker and censor any image you don't like. But this attitude of going around demanding & expecting everyone to accommodate your personal chumros is just wrong - even al pi Torah.
Fifth - the safest route is sometimes an illusion, especially when its the easiest way out of a tough situation. Very often in these cases, it leads down the wrong path.
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naturalmom5
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Wed, Jun 19 2019, 10:10 am
| amother [ Blonde ] wrote: | I am sitting here and trying to understand why you all so desperate to see women in a magazine.
And yes, some gedolim to see it as a problem. We recently published my grandfathers book, we went to a few leading gedolim for a bracha, they all told us to omit the picture of my grandmother. |
NAME THESE GEDOLIM
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imasoftov
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Wed, Jun 19 2019, 10:18 am
| amother [ Blush ] wrote: | | I just still want to see those shirtless bochurs Zehava mentioned. I imagine sitting indoors, hunched over a Gemara all day, makes them look just like Antonio Bandaras |
A photo of a shirtless man putting tefillin on another (who was wearing one) has been circulating around Israel recently but it has to do with one of the topics we may not discuss here so I'm not going to post it.
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amother
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Wed, Jun 19 2019, 10:21 am
Next up.
No picture of the kallah at the wedding.
Just the chassan with the father & FIL.
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amother
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Wed, Jun 19 2019, 10:32 am
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Oy, I wish imasoftov and I didn't cross, as I am clearly snarky and her post is making me reconsider (not my position, just my crass attitude) as the picture she is referencing does not sound OK.
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amother
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Wed, Jun 19 2019, 10:39 am
| gold2 wrote: | | Hashem loves women but why does that mean I have to have my picture posted? I know my own worth and don't need to be looked at in order to be seen. Yes you can argues that there can be modest pictures but who is going to define that? Especially with the way women are posing nowadays needing to show themselves off for everyone to see them! |
Wrong question. The question is why should you not have your picture posted?
Why do we include pictures of anybody in magazines?
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amother
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Wed, Jun 19 2019, 10:49 am
If I had published articles, I wouldn't care to have my photo published but nothing to do with being a woman. I'm just self conscious in general.
It bothers me when there is say, a fascinating article about weddings in the DP camps, but there is no photo of the chassan and kallah under the chuppah, just a photo of Male guests at the wedding (as was done in the Hamodia magazine recently). Or when a deceased and respected rebbetzin is written up, and they show a picture only of her husband or son. (All of the magazines.) And of course, when they won't publish a photo of a 6 year old, sweet frum girl with her Lego collection but they will have those weird, bizarre provocative ads for girls' clothing. (Again, all the mags.)
It's so sick and twisted, in all of those cases I mentioned to say there is a problem of shmiras eynayim or that women feel their teenage sons can't see those type of photos. And again, nobody has ever mentioned the name of an actual gadol who agrees with this. Not one.
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amother
Ruby
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Wed, Jun 19 2019, 11:23 am
Here's my two cents:
I'm okay if you want to ban women from magazines AS LONG AS the shadchans ban photos from those darn "shidduch resumes."
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