Tricking School into Accepting Unvaxxed Kids

Iymnok ↓

Sun, Sep 04 2016, 8:38 am

Marion wrote:

Haven't read all the responses yet but...proof of vaccination is not mandatory in Israel, which is where I believe Rav (Chaim) Kanievski lives. His psak should not be valid outside the country where the laws are or may be different.

And Rav Chaim Yitzchok has no brothers and two sisters...

Don't even try to compare Israel to the us regarding vaccines.

↑ Iymnok ↓

Sun, Sep 04 2016, 8:53 am

amother wrote:

Why not? Are the disease different?

Obviously not, the legal compulsion is not as strong.and there is much less of a fight to delay or skip. It's a personal, not political decision.
I have no idea what my neighbors do.

amother

↑ Coffee ↓

Sun, Sep 04 2016, 9:12 am

Iymnok wrote:

Obviously not, the legal compulsion is not as strong.and there is much less of a fight to delay or skip. It's a personal, not political decision.
I have no idea what my neighbors do.

So why should that be different in the US? Why should we have to fight?

amother

↑ Ruby ↓

Sun, Sep 04 2016, 9:27 am

amother wrote:

OMG. Don't tell me you're one of those people who believe a vaccine is a vial of only sterile water and a little tiny bit of strerilized disease? These threads become impossible when on page 16 we need to start with basics...

No honey, but you are conveniently ignoring the main component of a vaccine and assuming that all reactions are to the "other" ingredients. In the absence of any evidence they are at least equal suspects.

amother

↑ Papaya ↓

Sun, Sep 04 2016, 9:28 am

amother wrote:

That's like saying I had a bad electrician so I don't trust the plumber. Blood banks have nothing to do with pharmaceuticals. And the ethics involved are different. They do their best toake sure blood is disease free but the small risk involved is worth it because the other option is chance of imminent death. With prophylactic treatment with vaccines there is risk for low benefit. You don't have the disease and are often unlikely to get it (like hep b) so what's the rationalization for the risk?
Besidea, getting back to how this point started, I don't think anyone says to vaccinate babies in case they need a blood transfusion. You generally speaking assume most wont. If a parent has hep b I'd be more inclined to promote the vaccine but otherwise it's incredibly unlikely an infant will get it.

Lol, guess who regulates the blood bank industry in the US? The FDA. Aren't they money hungry corrupt people who delight in hurting children?

Low risk? I would hope that most children are low risk for most diseases, but fact is that #%^+ happens in this world and children do get sick, so vaccines were invented to protect them. If you want to see life without vaccines take a trip to a third world country and you will see real problems, much worse than excema.

amother

↑ Coffee ↓

Sun, Sep 04 2016, 9:41 am

amother wrote:

The FDA are not the pharmeceutical companies so still not the same thing.

And some diseases are airborne and easily passed onto others. Some aren't. Hep B is one that isn't. IMNSHO it's not worth the risk for my child (particularly since I had a vaccine injury from it) considering they can't catch it from a classmate and most likely wont need a blood transfusion. But if my child was god forbid in a situation where they needed a blood transfusion as a life saving measure I'd try to get a family donor (myself or my husband) and if that wasn't possible I'd take the risk. But that is because it's a lifesaving measure even though it has risk (albeit small). I wouldn't take the same small risk to prophylactically prevent something that is unlikely to happen.

amother

↑ Forestgreen ↓

Sun, Sep 04 2016, 9:58 am

amother wrote:

Ha the children in third world countries need food, clean water, shelter, and parents who can take care of them. That will solve many of their problems. Instead, you're bringing them vaccines (very first world thinking). Check Maslow's heiriarchy of needs. Basics like food and shelter come first! Those things are more important than vaccines! When they have that, let's see how they are doing and then we'll talk about vaccines. Sorry to break it to you, but vaccines are not the most basic need.

↑ imasoftov ↓

Sun, Sep 04 2016, 10:20 am

cnc wrote:

It may be private and can only be viewed by invitation.

The URL looks corrupted to me. The part that's supposed to be a code identifying the particular file has been replaced with periods.

Code:

https://drive.google.com/file/.....&pli=1

amother

↑ Wine

Sun, Sep 04 2016, 10:00 pm

imasoftov wrote:

The URL looks corrupted to me. The part that's supposed to be a code identifying the particular file has been replaced with periods.

Code:

https://drive.google.com/file/.....&pli=1

https://drive.google.com/file/.....pli=1

does this one work?

↑ imasoftov ↓

Mon, Sep 05 2016, 4:47 am

amother wrote:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3mMkPwF1DUPckVEZ2JkMXV2ams/view?pref=2&pli=1

does this one work?

This one does.

Are you a professional in the field who has read some (how many?) of the papers of which only abstracts are presented, searched for responses in future issues of where they appeared, etc?

Is anyone else?

↑ Marion

Mon, Sep 05 2016, 4:26 pm

amother wrote:

So why should that be different in the US? Why should we have to fight?

1. Because you're in the U.S. and there the vaccinations are legally mandated. In Israel they are not.

2. You don't have to fight, you could just be law-abiding.

amother

↑ Coffee ↓

Mon, Sep 05 2016, 4:29 pm

Marion wrote:

1. Because you're in the U.S. and there the vaccinations are legally mandated. In Israel they are not.

2. You don't have to fight, you could just be law-abiding.

I am law abiding. I have a religious exemption which is legal.

You don't hear of more outbreaks in Israel where it's not mandatory do you? I can't imagine outbreaks of these diseases being well hidden (yes, I know there was just one incident of measles in a non vaxxed kid there) but we aren't hearing about it every day. So why can't we have similar laws? Honestly, I just wrote up my religious exemption and I was uncomfortable with it because I'd love to give some but not all vaccines and based on the laws now it's all or nothing.

amother

↑ White ↓

Mon, Sep 05 2016, 4:57 pm

amother wrote:

That doesn't make any sense. I believe that you should give all vaccines, but how would you doctor even know about your exemption? That's for the school and the school board. I HIGHLY DOUBT that if you walked into your doctors office and requested some vaccines that you would be told no, and if so, find another doctor or a vaccination clinic.

amother

↑ Papaya ↓

Mon, Sep 05 2016, 5:00 pm

amother wrote:

The FDA regulates the pharmeceutical industry as well.

amother

↑ Papaya

Mon, Sep 05 2016, 5:03 pm

amother wrote:

Who said that they don't have parents who take care of them. Clean water is indeed one of the biggest issues you are correct and there are many attempts to help with this going on now. Trust me they would love vaccines and medicine to protect against the horrible infant and child mortality they have. Id be willing to bet I know more about third world medical needs than you but thanks.

amother

↑ Coffee ↓

Mon, Sep 05 2016, 5:11 pm

amother wrote:

Actually my doctor does know about it. I chose this doctor because he supports my decision to not vaccinate. However, once you give some shots you can't claim religious exemption so I'm stuck. My doc would gladly give some and not others. But then vaccines are reported (insurance, etc) and there goes my religious exemption.

amother

↑ Coffee ↓

Mon, Sep 05 2016, 5:12 pm

amother wrote:

The FDA regulates the pharmeceutical industry as well.

Indeed. That doesn't change anything. I still don't want to take a risk for the tiny chance it will help me. I will take the risk in a life threatening situation.

amother

↑ White

Mon, Sep 05 2016, 5:12 pm

amother wrote:

What if you just paid cash for them?
That just doesn't seem fair.

amother

↑ Coffee ↓

Mon, Sep 05 2016, 5:22 pm

amother wrote:

What if you just paid cash for them?
That just doesn't seem fair.

I'll probably look into that at some point. I'm not ready to give anything yet so it's less pressing but in theory I'm ok giving MMR and polio. I definitely don't want to give Hep A or B, rotavirus, flu or chickenpox. Right now flu and rotavirus are not mandated where I live but Hep A and B are. So is DTP and chickenpox. There are a total of 20 vaccine mandated for a two year old starting school right now. I'm not ready to do that so...back to my religious exemption.