People are Individuals - recent shootings

fmt4 ↓

Fri, Jul 08 2016, 8:14 pm

ohmygosh wrote:

The fact is, none of us know what occured in that situation and why the cop used his gun. We don't have the full audio/video. But I, for one, am sick and tired of everyone assuming it's due to race before knowing all the facts. I am sick of the black community rising up and rioting without knowing what happened. They take one fact -white officer shot black guy- and make the assumption that it was due to race. A white cop nowadays would have to be very stupid to shoot a black guy 'just because'. I don't think anyone in their right mind would do that.

Let the facts play out. Not everything is about race.

As an aside, I did watch the video, and I found it VERY off putting and strange that when her boyfriend was sitting there and moaning and dying, she didn't touch him once or try to help him, but rather continued to talk into the live FB feed.

By the way, I read that the officer who shot this man was Asian.

are you kidding me??? The reason why she didn't touch him or do anything besides sit there is because she was scared of getting killed herself. Did you not see the officer with a gun pointed into the car yelling at her??? That's why she called him "sir" after he murdered her boyfriend!! She was absolutely terrified and in shock!!! How dare you judge someone who has just experienced the unthinkable??? Have you no compassion?

This thread is ridiculous. None of you have any idea what people of color go through. You just don't. It take humility and sensitivity to admit that you JUST DONT UNDERSTAND.

↑ marina ↓

Fri, Jul 08 2016, 8:25 pm

BasMelech120 wrote:

Again, I am not asking for pages and pages of explanations. If the issues were so real, you would be able to quickly draw up a list of bullet points and present them to me so I can research them further. For example, let me demonstrate how I would do this when discussing the issues within black communities today:

* High levels of incarceration among both men and women
* High levels of gang inclusion at younger ages
* Higher levels of school dropout
* Higher numbers of children (both male and female) growing up without a father in the home
* High numbers of black-on-black homicides
* Higher numbers of arrest/incarceration specifically related to illegal substances

See? Quick and easy. This post took me maybe 4 minutes to compose, and I think it shows that I may not be as uneducated as you'd like to believe I am. Can you come up with an actual list of 'racist' white-on-black issues?

(Editing to let you know that if you needed statistics on any of those items, I'd be able to provide them to you without a problem.)

What are you asking for? Ways in which society is racist? Are you kidding? Just look at Trump- people are considering electing a complete bigot. TO LEAD THE COUNTRY

If you are really asking the above question, I encourage you to educate yourself further about:

Disparities in quality of education btw white and minority communities - including quality of classes, teachers, facilities, materials etc

Disparities in discipline in schools where black students are expelled and suspended for the same issues that get white kids a verbal warning

How the above factors, together w poverty, contribute to disparities in college attendance and job opportunities.

Disparities in sentencing for criminals depending on skin color.

Disparities in hiring based on how ethnic a person's name is on their resume. Out of Jane and Latoya, Jane will get the job, even if Latoya has the same qualifications or higher.

Disparities in purchasing a home and how black pple are steered away from buying in nicer neighborhoods.

Disparities in general treatment by the public.

I dk if you have yet a sense of how much more you have to learn abt this topic. I can go on and on

↑ marina ↓

Fri, Jul 08 2016, 8:29 pm

shoshanim999 wrote:

But our perceptions are based on how we observe people act and behave. You obviously aren't racist but you wouldn't dare walk at night in many black neighborhoods because you would be afraid that the black people in the area would steal your money, rape and kill you. Am I wrong? Would you walk alone at night in Ferguson Missouri?

This is why I don't ever do business with Jews, who as everyone knows are overrepresented in the white collar crime world. I'm not antiSemitic or anything, don't get me wrong. I'm just very afraid that Jewish people would lie, cheat and swindle me out of my life savings. Am I wrong? Would you actually do business with a Jew?

Chana Miriam S ↓

Fri, Jul 08 2016, 8:30 pm

shoshanim999 wrote:

I was reading this morning that the celebrity Drake said that after watching the video he is genuinely afraid for himself, his family and friends. Is he serious? The biggest threat to black people is other black people and it's not even close. Where is the outrage about the black on black crime? Why aren't there marches and protests about this? Do blacks really care about black lives? I certainly don't think so.

I would like to point out that Drake is halachically Jewish. He grew up in Forest Hill, an affluent mostly white and very jewish area of Toronto. It was not Jane Finch.Its richie rich land. Of course he is serious. And it's disgusting that you don't take seriously that a fellow jew, nay many fellow Jews, are in danger from their traffic stops and hey, just walking in the street. You think all JEws are white? You think oly the white ones should be safe? and why should black people who aren't jewish have to be afraid to walk down the street? This comment is incredibly ignorant.

By the way. Drake is Canadian. We do have bigotry here,but in general it is better than the states. All the black people I knew growing up were just like me. Well, not jewish necessarily but middle class, well educated etc. When I end up in a bad neighbourhood here, I am afraid of EVERYONE. And our bad neighbourhoods are mixed, not all black. I think those who think balck people are doing it to themselves are pretty out there.

Last edited by Chana Miriam S on Fri, Jul 08 2016, 8:51 pm; edited 1 time in total

↑ marina ↓

Fri, Jul 08 2016, 8:36 pm

wondergirl wrote:

You don't have an explanation that is why you keep going in circles without really saying anything which is a circular fallacy. But if you come up with a good way to explain race relations without blaming white people for the problems in the black communities then I would love to hear it.

Can you explain anti Semitism without blaming Gentiles for all the problems in the Jewish community? I feel like you can't. Every single time some Jew complains that they were discriminated against, I'm always like OMG FIX YOUR OWM PROBLEMS YOU JEWY JEWY JEWS AND STOP BLAMING GENTILES FOR EVERYTHING.

Anything happens in Israel- gentiles' fault. Anything happens in Europe- Gentiles' fault. Anything happens anywhere, guess whose fault it is? Even when Jews get punished for the very crimes they committed, they have the audacity to complain that the 27 year long sentence was anti Semitic bc it was too long. Stop blaming secular society and the non Jews for all your problems.

↑ marina ↓

Fri, Jul 08 2016, 8:44 pm

BasMelech120 wrote:

I will take the responsibility to educate myself on matters that are real, important, or matters that are actually harmful or threatening to people. Black people blaming white people for their problems is simply a lazy response to their own issues. There is not a single freedom that Black people do not have today. Not a SINGLE one.
That is why I would love to hear from you about the real white-on-black issues facing the black communities. Once you have pointed them out and made the issue clear, I'd love to have a read at the relevant topics. But just screaming 'racism' will not get anyone anywhere. You have to be able to actually point it out.

I'm going into Shabbos now but still picking my jaw up off the floor on this one. I'll recommend some books for you to read sat night.

↑ shoshanim999 ↓

Sat, Jul 09 2016, 9:55 pm

Maya wrote:

Did you know that predominantly black school districts receive less funding than predominantly white school districts, thereby limiting the badly needed resources that would help to prevent a lot of the problems you mentioned in your post? Do you think this is the fault of the poor black people in the neighborhoods?

Start there.

Sure, that's the problem. I'm sure If they had better materials and books they wouldn't be hanging out in the street. I'm sure they'd go home and study. Do you seriously believe that's the issue??? Think about it.

↑ Maya ↓

Sat, Jul 09 2016, 9:59 pm

shoshanim999 wrote:

I can't even.

You think we're talking about better books?
Your ignorance knows no bounds, and you should be ashamed of yourself and your disgusting, hateful posts.

↑ shoshanim999 ↓

Sat, Jul 09 2016, 10:13 pm

marina wrote:

If that's what you've observed then I can't argue with that. However, I would ask you statistically, what % of jews are known to be dishonest and will outright cheat and steal in business? If you can PROVE to me it's a high %, I'd like to hear about it. Why do you think that the % of overall jews that would rob you is more than a tiny fraction?

↑ gold21 ↓

Sat, Jul 09 2016, 10:22 pm

shoshanim999 wrote:

The problem with your posts on this topic lies in your continuous use of the word "they". There is no "they". Each and every member of the black community is an individual, and while the stats you posted may be true (I would have to look into it), that is not a rationalization for police brutality against a black person- an individual who is not responsible for the choices of his community.

You cant just pull a "they" when its really a "he".

With that said, as someone with no agenda, I am not going to assume anything about this case until I get the facts. An agenda is never healthy when dealing with these types of scenarios. Im open to hearing what actually transpired instead of assuming "it was because he was black" as a Black Lives Matter protester would have you believe. In fact, im not going to assume police brutality at all. Ill wait and listen to the facts instead of erupting in anger without actual information.

Last edited by gold21 on Sat, Jul 09 2016, 10:29 pm; edited 3 times in total

↑ Maya ↓

Sat, Jul 09 2016, 10:23 pm

Shoshanim and the others who share her views, I strongly urge you to put aside your emotions and your ego for just a short while, and take the time to educate yourself about all the problems, issues, discrepancies, and unfairness that black communities face, often through no fault of their own.

It baffles me that Jews, a historically persecuted minority group, can be so callous and downright mean and hateful about others who are in similar positions. I'd expect at least a shred of some compassion and understanding, if nothing more.

↑ shoshanim999 ↓

Sat, Jul 09 2016, 10:25 pm

andrea levy wrote:

I don't get your point? When Drake said he is afraid, he was obviously referring to the fact that he's black and is therefore afraid of the cops. My point was that if Drake has anything to be afraid of, it's not the cops, but the neighborhood folks.

Blacks aren't doing it to themselves? Who's fault is it that their graduation rate is under 50%? Whose fault is it that 65% of babies are born to single mothers most of whom are teenagers? Stick to the facts please.

↑ fmt4 ↓

Sat, Jul 09 2016, 10:30 pm

What I don't understand is what makes you guys think that your silly little observations that have been formed from your probably extremely limited interaction with black people and that time you read that one biased book or newspaper article somehow qualifies you to talk about this issues and expect anyone to take you seriously.
People dedicate their entire lives to studying race in America and the extremely complex ways that it is woven into the fabric of our country. If you really wanted to even have an inkling of understanding you would need to really educate yourself by reading multiple books and articles coming from many different sides and perspectives - not just the side that you instinctually agree with. And you'd have to have actually had some kind of real interactions with black people that would prevent you from referring to them as "they" in such a contemptuous and ignorant manner.

Until you do that, you just sound stupid and ridiculous, yelling about things that you know nothing about. I freely admit that I haven't had the time to educate myself properly and therefore don't feel like I can really expound on the topic. It takes a bit of humility and sensitivity to admit that. You should try some of that.

↑ fmt4 ↓

Sat, Jul 09 2016, 10:36 pm

shoshanim999 wrote:

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I don't get your point? When Drake said he is afraid, he was obviously referring to the fact that he's black and is therefore afraid of the cops. My point was that if Drake has anything to be afraid of, it's not the cops, but the neighborhood folks.

Blacks aren't doing it to themselves? Who's fault is it that their graduation rate is under 50%? Whose fault is it that 65% of babies are born to single mothers most of whom are teenagers? Stick to the facts please.

Her point is that drake lived/lived in an upper class neighborhood where he didn't have to worry about crime. But he still has to worry about being pulled over by a cop and mistreated because he's black.

And by facts, do you mean spouting statistics without all the complex factors that surround them? I know you think it makes you sound smart but it doesn't. It makes you sound shallow and ignorant. Education and single motherhood in black neighborhoods has A lot to do with racism. Again, there are books and articles written about these topics. Read them.

↑ Maya ↓

Sat, Jul 09 2016, 10:37 pm

wondergirl wrote:

http://chicago.suntimes.com/news/police-2-dead-17-wounded-in-weekend-shootings/

http://www.city-journal.org/ht......html

What are you trying to prove, that there's violence in black communities?

Do you not understand that we are talking about underlying and way more complex issues that are at play here? Do you think this is a competition about who can bring more statistics and better "proof" about the violence? Are you not getting this conversation at all?