People are Individuals - recent shootings

↑ marina ↓

Sat, Jul 09 2016, 10:43 pm

shoshanim999 wrote:

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I don't get your point? When Drake said he is afraid, he was obviously referring to the fact that he's black and is therefore afraid of the cops. My point was that if Drake has anything to be afraid of, it's not the cops, but the neighborhood folks.

Blacks aren't doing it to themselves? Who's fault is it that their graduation rate is under 50%? Whose fault is it that 65% of babies are born to single mothers most of whom are teenagers? Stick to the facts please.

Perhaps you missed what I wrote before about the difference btw citizens shooting each other and the government shooting its citizens. I encourage you to go back and re-read.

The analyses and conclusions you draw are simply underinformed. You have not read enough about institutional racism, socio-economic poverty, generational poverty, how it intersects with race, and how it has been affected by the history of race-relations in America.

Your comments are on the level of : OMG THOSE BAD BAD ISRAELIS OPPRESSING THE POOR PALESTINIANS. That's how people talk when they have not delved deeper into understanding the relationships between different groups.

↑ wondergirl ↓

Sat, Jul 09 2016, 10:49 pm

Maya wrote:

What are you trying to prove, that there's violence in black communities?

Do you not understand that we are talking about underlying and way more complex issues that are at play here? Do you think this is a competition about who can bring more statistics and better "proof" about the violence? Are you not getting this conversation at all?

I suggest that you go live and work in the black communities (preferably volunteer/work in a substance abuse clinic) before you say anything further, not that you are saying much in the first place. I think you will be in for a real surprise and never say anything negative about the cops or white people again.

Oh, and Jews are being attacked by black people more and more these days. There were multiple attacks these past few weeks and it is only escalating. But I guess Jews are too "privileged" for you to speak up about it or care about them because only some lives matter to you. Sad.

↑ Maya ↓

Sat, Jul 09 2016, 10:55 pm

wondergirl wrote:

For the last time, this is not about violence in the black community, but about the underlying causes and general race relations in this country. I'm sorry that this seems to be a concept that is too difficult for you to grasp.

↑ wondergirl ↓

Sat, Jul 09 2016, 11:03 pm

Maya wrote:

You are still not saying anything about race relations in this country so I am telling you to go live and work in the black community so that you can get educated about it which will then enable you explain race relations in America based on your own real life experiences of living and working in the black community.

↑ Maya ↓

Sat, Jul 09 2016, 11:07 pm

wondergirl wrote:

From this comment I will only conclude that you didn't read this thread, because I and others have pointed out specific issues about race relations on which you can do further research if you want to.

May I ask which black community you live in, which "entitles" you to make all these observations based on your own experiences?

Last edited by Maya on Sat, Jul 09 2016, 11:08 pm; edited 1 time in total

↑ shoshanim999 ↓

Sat, Jul 09 2016, 11:07 pm

gold21 wrote:

The problem with your posts on this topic lies in your continuous use of the word "they". There is no "they". Each and every member of the black community is an individual, and while the stats you posted may be true (I would have to look into it), that is not a rationalization for police brutality against a black person- an individual who is not responsible for the choices of his community.

You cant just pull a "they" when its really a "he".

With that said, as someone with no agenda, I am not going to assume anything about this case until I get the facts. An agenda is never healthy when dealing with these types of scenarios. Im open to hearing what actually transpired instead of assuming "it was because he was black" as a Black Lives Matter protester would have you believe. In fact, im not going to assume police brutality at all. Ill wait and listen to the facts instead of erupting in anger without actual information.

Of course each unarmed person that is murdered by the police during a stop or arrest is the victim and it's a terrible tragedy. But lets keep this "police brutality" in perspective. In the U.S. there are approximately 4.5 million black people arrested each year. Last year there were 102 cases where an unarmed black person was killed during their arrest. Even then in many of those cases there was a struggle of some kind or the victim simply not complying with police orders. That works out to around 2 murders for every 100,000 cases. And again, this includes cases like Michael Brown who while unarmed, civil rights prosecutors concluded that he posed a threat to the officers life, and Eric Garner who simply didn't comply when the officer was attempting to arrest him. ( I'm not in any way saying he deserved to die, just pointing out that if he would have complied, the incident wouldn't have escalated. Is 2 out of 100,000 really an epidemic? Is THIS really the main concern for the black community? I think 15 year old black girls need to stop having babies. That's a far bigger concern. Sorry if my honesty offends anyone.

↑ treestump

Sat, Jul 09 2016, 11:18 pm

I'm not even sure what can even be said at this point in the thread.

But I suggest some of you watch Freedom Writers. A lot of comments here remind me of certain sentiments expressed in the movie, like this one:

"Sure, that's the problem. I'm sure If they had better materials and books they wouldn't be hanging out in the street. I'm sure they'd go home and study. Do you seriously believe that's the issue??? Think about it."

You may find it extremely enlightening.

↑ marina ↓

Sat, Jul 09 2016, 11:19 pm

shoshanim999 wrote:

Is THIS really the main concern for the black community? I think 15 year old black girls need to stop having babies. That's a far bigger concern. Sorry if my honesty offends anyone.

Are occasional acts of anti-Semitism really the main concern for the Jewish community? A murder by a palestinian here or there? Some violent beatings in France or other places in Europe? I think Jews need to stop letting their kids be molested. That's a far bigger concern. Sorry if my honesty (=facts) offends anyone.

↑ wondergirl ↓

Sat, Jul 09 2016, 11:20 pm

Maya wrote:

I have lived and worked in the black communities in Michigan, L.A. and N.Y.
I didn't have a car and took public transportation in each of these cities and worked in bad neighborhoods (think East L.A. were the locals are terrified for their own lives and bend over backwards to get "protection" from gangs there and were shocked that I was even there. http://www.latimes.com/local/l......html
Michigan was just a sorry bombed out place, all those nice houses that people lived in were destroyed for no reason. Oh wait, they were destroyed because of white people, at least according to your logic.
But you won't even try living and working in the black community to get a firsthand education about what is going on. What are you afraid of?

↑ marina ↓

Sat, Jul 09 2016, 11:25 pm

wondergirl wrote:

I have lived and worked in the black communities in Michigan, L.A. and N.Y.
I didn't have a car and took public transportation in each of these cities and worked in bad neighborhoods (think East L.A. were the locals are terrified for their own lives and bend over backwards to get "protection" from gangs there and were shocked that I was even there. http://www.latimes.com/local/l......html
Michigan was just a sorry bombed out place, all those nice houses that people lived in were destroyed for no reason. Oh wait, they were destroyed because of white people, at least according to your logic.
Buyou won't even try living and working in the black community to get a firsthand education about what is going on. What are you afraid of?

I have seen this so many times. Jews who live in urban, high poverty areas conclude that the poor urban AA males around them reflect all AAs nationwide.

These Jews have simply not spent time in middle class or upper class neighborhoods. They've never met black pple who are lawyers, doctors, professors, architects, chemists, engineers. They've met black pple but only in poverty settings. They can't even imagine working under a smarter, more experienced AA professional.

The problems in the black community that you are all discussing here are related more to poverty than to race. These problems exists similarly in poor white communities.

Although why Jews- with their own cornucopia of serious social problems - feel the need to discuss some other group's issues is beyond me.

↑ shoshanim999 ↓

Sat, Jul 09 2016, 11:33 pm

marina wrote:

should jews be worried about our teenage pregnancy problem? Are jews dropping out of high school and not graduating? Is there a rampant drug problem among jews? Yes, jews need to worry about the Palestinians because we know that there are many that would like to annihilate us if they had the means, do you disagree? I believe my question still stands. Is 1 or 2 out of 100,000 (while tragic) really a problem that warrants national attention?

↑ wondergirl

Sat, Jul 09 2016, 11:36 pm

marina wrote:

Interesting. Except that I have also met many black people who are lawyers, doctors, social workers, professors, etc. so I fail to see your point in regards to that.
Are you aware of the fact that many Frum, Jewish people live in the projects? Because I grew up in the projects among poor Jewish people yet there was no violent crime, drugs, gangs, etc. How is that possible? They are poor as well and live in the projects so they should be involved in all sorts of criminal activities just like anyone else living in the projects. Oh wait, they are not black so they wouldn't be able to blame their problems on white people so maybe that is what keeping them from committing violent crime, dealing/doing drugs, gangs, etc?

Snickers18 ↓

Sat, Jul 09 2016, 11:37 pm

marina wrote:

Totally agree with this, and that's why I'm glad I live in a place free of these prejudices. Not free of all prejudices, but this particular problem doesn't exist, and I am careful about what my kids hear and who they spend time with when we end up in these communities for short periods of time. They are still young and though I don't think a few ignorant comments will shatter their current worldview, I just don't think it's necessary for them to be introduced to hate and unrest yet (or I wish ever). Sad

↑ Chana Miriam S ↓

Sat, Jul 09 2016, 11:40 pm

shoshanim999 wrote:

Are you such a bigot that you think a Jewish guy worth sixty billion dollars lives in the hood? And are you such a bigot that you can't understand that when he is driving around in his expensive car, which he earned, he could be killed for going for h is license because he was profiled? And when he dies after said traffic stop are you going to even acknowledge baruch dayan emet?

↑ Snickers18

Sat, Jul 09 2016, 11:43 pm

shoshanim999 wrote:

While statistically speaking, (frum) Jews might not be linked to much violent crime, we do have a whole host of issues of our own we can be focusing on. Technically speaking, there are many teen pregnancies, and while I know you wouldn't put them in the same category as the teen pregnancies you are referring to (because most of them are married at the time they get pregnant), it still comes along with its own set of issues, namely ignorance and naivete about their own bodies, what they can handle, and what they should or shouldn't put up with. I won't touch on the education because every community has its own standards, but suffice it to say that those standards are worrying to some, especially given the amount of children frum jews tend to have on the whole. As for drugs, hard to know because who talks about that?

While I'm sure you will say there's no comparison, it still would not hurt to clean our own houses first....

↑ shoshanim999 ↓

Sat, Jul 09 2016, 11:57 pm

Snickers18 wrote:

First of all, like you said, there is no comparison between drugs, pregnancy, violent crime in the jewish community and the black community. But that's off topic. The question is whether all this outrage in the black community is warrented when statistically the issue of cops killing blacks during an arrest amounts to 1 or 2 per 100,000? Is this really the biggest problem in their community? It certainly is generating the most outrage.