I choose my teens over my religion!

↑ amother ↓

Thu, Dec 20 2012, 10:55 am

Can somebody please define special needs? I guess my dd has special needs, she has ADD and has very very little self control. One night she was mad about something and tried to leave the house. I warned her not to leave and she ignored me and left anyway. My dh had to drive around in the dark trying to find her. He eventually did and she had to be dragged into the car because she refused to get in. Should we have just allowed her to do as she pleased despite the danger? Because a 15 year old has no concept of predators and walking only in a safe area? Where do you draw the line? Should my concern have been not to upset her because she has special needs Rolling Eyes

? My dd has never tried to do that again because she knows how it will end. She doesn't have to agree with us about everything, we are the parents and we do get the final say. I will not argue over everything, sometimes you really need to look away but when it comes to her safety or setting a bad example for her siblings, or flaunting her disregard for our rules then I will put my foot down. Special needs or none.

(FTR, none of this has backfired on us, we have sent her to a therapist and her behavior has improved tremendously, despite us not giving in and maintaining our house rules).

↑ saw50st8 ↓

Thu, Dec 20 2012, 11:45 am

No one is saying be a permissive parent and don't give boundaries and rules.

But if the rules aren't working for your child, figure out a way to make life workable for your child the way they need - not the way you want.

FTR, my mother always raised us telling us the most important thing was to be observant. She didn't care what we did academically or professionally, but she drilled it into us to be observant Jews. Yet, I still knew she would love me if I weren't.

She raised 3 observant kids. According to what we needed not what she wanted. Thats the crux of the issue. So one of my sisters chose to be Yeshivish and my mother supported her. Two of chose to be Modern Orthodox the way we were raised, and generally more halachically observant.

Most of the kids I know who went OTD were because their parents couldn't see that their kids had different needs and wants than their parents and chose to be dictators. Because kids have to respect their parents but parents don't have to respect their kids.

↑ greenfire ↓

Thu, Dec 20 2012, 12:30 pm

freidasima wrote:

Green forgive me, I certainly did not mean to write anything hurtful.

first off when you stick a knife in someone & twist it - you cannot take it back - just sayin'

freidasima wrote:

shabbos requires

shabbos doesn't require anything ... leave peoples spirituality between themselves & god !!!

freidasima wrote:

Sequoia and others, I was brought up european and well know about house clothes versus outside clothes.
Same about removing outside dirty shoes and putting on house shoes which we all do till today. But shabbos requires special shabbos house clothes which are fancy and pretty while still comfortable, at least for women as we are the ones doing most of the kitchen stuff and can get dirty etc.

as I mentioned previously, my shabbos clothing I save for shul ... although maybe I should dig out a shabbos robe from the bottom of my closet along with my sheitel ~ hm maybe I can find the hubby there as well [oh right I divorced the bastard for being holier-than-thou]

~ pick a number & get in line everybody wants to be god

since when does the outer garb play a role in kedushas hashabbos ... you are confusing clothing with religious levels - something that I have seen push many people away from yiddishkeit - including but not limited to my girls

freidasima wrote:

But shabbos requires special shabbos house clothes which are fancy and pretty while still comfortable, at least for women as we are the ones doing most of the kitchen stuff and can get dirty etc.

you haven't met my sonny boy who does the serving [& likes to cook as well] {maybe I'll buy him a shabbos robe for chr!stmas}

freidasima wrote:

Obviously this coming to the table in weekday sweats is not the norm otherwise people
would not be writing about it as an issue, right?

shabbos sweats can be trending ... always clean & freshly laundered ... sometimes even a cozy t-shirt nightgown [sonny boy actually thought it was a dress]

↑ b from nj ↓

Thu, Dec 20 2012, 12:37 pm

I will have failed as a parent if my children feel that I will not love them if they choose to live a less religious (or even chas v'shalom a non-religious) lifestyle than I have tried to imbue in them ever since they were born. As a parent, it is MY goal to guide them by example while they are living in my home & even though I do hope & pray that they will continue in the derech that I have raised them, I will need to accept the decisions that they may make as adults even if the differ from my decisions & observances. It is my hope that I will ALWAYS love my children even if I may for whatever reasons disapprove of their lifestyle choices & decisions.

↑ Isramom8 ↓

Thu, Dec 20 2012, 12:44 pm

I kind of like the idea of Shabbos sweat outfits. They can be made of the same cozy fleecy material, yet have, I don't know, lace and maybe Shabbos motifs like neiros challos and yayin lekiddush designs. Sweat pants for the man of the house who sets the tone of kedusha, and sweat skirts for the aishes chayil. Accompanied by dainty sweat tichelach.

Ad: ShabbosSweats are the new Shabbos Robe!

(complimentary ad for being a mod)

↑ freidasima ↓

Thu, Dec 20 2012, 1:05 pm

I'm really surprised at some posters' inability to detatch themselves from that word "love" and actually acknowledge that in my posts I have never said to stop LOVING your child for any reason whatsoever.

And I am even more surprised at those same posters' inability to separate the concept of love from absolute acceptance and sanction of a child's actions and decisions no matter what.

Why can't you see that love has nothing to do with acceptance and sanction?

A mother may love her son the convicted pedophile child murderer, but she does not sanction his actions or accept them or his life choice of a "profession". And she can continue to love him in her heart but she may decide that she never wants to have anything to do with him again.

And note - I never said to cut off children who are not religious, I never said to cut off children who are chutzpadik. But I DEFINITELY said that I find it totally normal to cut off children who were educated religious and grew up religious and decided nevertheless to marry a non-Jew. You can still love them in your heart, at the same time as you cut them off.

Some of you really have a very different concept of what an Orthodox shabbos is than many of us. And my guess is that many of you feel the way you do about not cutting off children and family who intermarry because you come from families who are BT or have lots of non Jewish relatives yourselves. I wonder how many Orthodox and Charedi FFBs feel as I do about it versus how most of you seem to feel? That it is not right to come to the table in sweats and pyjamas for shabbos and that if a child of yours would chas vesholom marryout you would not want to have anything to do with that child, period.?

↑ saw50st8 ↓

Thu, Dec 20 2012, 1:17 pm

Nice try FS, but I come from a long time religious family (we trace our heritage back all the way to being kicked out of Spain in the Spanish Inquisition). I don't have a large amount of non-religious relatives. I do have a large family full of people on all spectrums (MO all the way to Chassidish).

I'm sure a lot of Charedi families would have no problem cutting their kids off. I don't agree with that and think everyone loses.

And what is the value of your "love" to the child if you cut them out of your life? NOTHING.

tb ↓

Thu, Dec 20 2012, 1:20 pm

I had to read all the way til page 10 for someone to finally say - Sometimes you just got to tell them that you love G-d more than them!

My husband heard a story from R' Schwab. His father ran a very kid friendly seder. When they got up to the arbah bonim he would always ask them which kid they wanted to be like and of course they all said the Chocham. One year for a joke one of teh kids said "a rasha". His father got very serious and told them, I love you all very much but I love hashem more and if any one of you would become a rasha you will not be welcome in my home.

And if you would maintain a relationship with a kid who marries out but not with a kid who is an ax murderer then you are giving more crediance to societies norms than judaisms.

↑ Inspired ↓

Thu, Dec 20 2012, 1:47 pm

saw50st8 wrote:

I actually don't know that any charedi families that would "have no problem" cutting their kids off. I can't even think of any families that I know who have cut their kids off. Distanced themselves a little but cut them of, like have nothing to do with them? I don't know any like that off the top of my head. I I thought really hard maybe I could come up with one or two. or sure not anything anyone would consider " a lot".

↑ tb ↓

Thu, Dec 20 2012, 1:48 pm

You can love multiple people. But sometimes it happens that you need to chose between 2. And sometimes circumstances dictate that you have to cut off or minimize a relationship with one of them because of your relationship with the other. And no one is saying that it is not a painful choice and it tears your heart out. But sometimes such a choice would need to be made.

BUT it would be totally incorrect to say that is shows that your love for the second one was worth NOTHING!

↑ saw50st8 ↓

Thu, Dec 20 2012, 1:57 pm

tb wrote:

I still don't understand.

Are you saying that sometimes a child needs to choose between her husband and her mother? Sure, temporarily. And vice versa. That's way different than being cut off from your family forever because they don't agree with your choices.

↑ b from nj ↓

Thu, Dec 20 2012, 1:57 pm

freidasima wrote:

Sorry FS, but you cannot love your child & cut them out of your life at the same time!!! When I say love your child unconditionally, I mean that the child should be able to feel the love that you have for them b/c you are NOT showing your child your love when you want to have nothing to do with them. That is NOT love, that is simply trying to control them. & for the record, I grew up as an FFB with mostly frum family members & very few family members who intermarried. I do not agree with your "my way or the highway" approach to child-rearing & life in general (from what I've read in many of your posts).