Bitachon and Thinking Positively

Motek ↓

Fri, Feb 25 2005, 1:43 pm

The non-Chassidic understanding of bitachon is that it means trusting that Hashem is in charge of everything, nothing happens if He does not will it to happen. In this view, Hashem is not beholden to you by virtue of your trust.

In the Chassidic view of bitachon, if a person trusts that Hashem will provide him with parnasa or health or whatever it is, Hashem will respond with that which the person seeks.

Here's a practical application: In the non-Chassidic view, if a person is seriously sick ch'v, it would be wrong for someone to tell him to tracht gut, vet zein gut (to think positively and it will work out well), because who knows? Maybe Hashem has other things in mind? Maybe that's false hope in a bleak situation?

I have heard this view expressed time and again among non-Chassidim.

The origin of tracht gut vet zein gut goes back to a story of a Chassid of the Tzemach Tzedek (3rd Lubavitcher Rebbe) who went to the Tz. Tz. because his son was on the verge of death. The Tz. Tz. told him tract gut vet zein gut and the child recovered. When did the child take a turn for the better? The moment the Chassid began thinking this way.

The Lubavitcher Rebbe greatly emphasized this concept.

Some ask, but who says a person deserves whatever it is that he's praying for? Maybe he won't get it because he's not deserving?

The answer is, that BY VIRTUE OF THE TRUST, the person gets what he prays for, EVEN IF he's not particularly deserving. If a person goes beyond his limitation, and trusts in Hashem in situations where doctors tell him it's hopeless, or just the situation itself seems hopeless, Hashem responds in kind.

Rivka

Sat, Feb 26 2005, 5:19 pm

Who says to die isn't a good thing? If someone is ill and Hashem doesn't wish them to be better doesn't mean it isn't a good thing. But then who can says everything Hashem does is good? Do you see the killing of innocent people as good because Hashem has willed it? Or do you see it as bad so there can be good? I think the difference in outlook is just for the present state, but I think everyone thinks the same when they talk about it in the long run. ie maybe the holocaust was needed so Moshiach could come quicker.

↑ Motek ↓

Sun, Feb 27 2005, 11:39 am

Quote:

But then who can says everything Hashem does is good?

everything Hashem does is good, though we don't always see it as good

I should add a correction to my previous post, that my husband pointed out that it (trusting that it will work out the way one wants) is not an exclusive "chasidic" view, but one that the Chovos Ha'Levavos says and one practiced by others too.

there are levels in bitachon, for example, the Brisker Rav, during the war, was completely unconcerned about using up the food they had and having nothing for the next day. Today is today, and tomorrow is another day ...

ForeverYoung ↓
Guest

Sun, Feb 27 2005, 8:49 pm

Quote:

BY VIRTUE OF THE TRUST, the person gets what he prays for, EVEN IF he's not particularly deserving

or doesn't get it b/c H' doesn't think it's good for the person

Quote:

In the non-Chassidic view, if a person is seriously sick ch'v, it would be wrong for someone to tell him to tracht gut, vet zein gut (to think positively and it will work out well)

I wonder, which non-Chasidim u know, b/c the ones I know have no prob with positive attitude....

proudmom

Mon, Feb 28 2005, 1:47 pm

There is no need to think negativly because by doing so you make things worse than it is. By you thinking negativly you bring the vibes onto the person that is sick. The person will feel depressed and feel there is no hope because other people around him feel the same way. When you feel that there is hope you give the other person strengh to pull through it whatever he is going through. The best thing for the sick person is when people around him are positive

Last edited by proudmom on Mon, Feb 28 2005, 5:11 pm; edited 2 times in total

↑ ForeverYoung ↓
Guest

Mon, Feb 28 2005, 1:52 pm

Quote:

now you're repeating the non-chasidic view

Motek, did YOU ever get a NO as an answer from H'?

Quote:

I wrote nothing about chasidim or non-chasidim having one

really? did I dream this:

Quote:

↑ Motek ↓

Mon, Feb 28 2005, 2:24 pm

My favorite story is about the talmidim of the Baal Shem Tov who were sent by the Besht to a man to learn about bitachon. As they visit with him, a man comes in and pounds on the table and then leaves. Their host explains that this is the first warning from the poritz that he must pay the rent. He seemed relaxed about it, and when the man came in a second and a third time and banged on the table, he still seemed calm. The talmidim said: So you have the money? and to their surprise he said he didn't.

The talmidim watched in great curiosity as the man set off to the poritz's mansion to pay the rent, with no money in his pocket. They wondered how it would play out.

In the distance they saw a wagon approaching the host, stopping, and then travelling on, then stopping again, turning around and going back to their host. Then their host continued on to the mansion.

When he returned, the talmidim were eager to hear what had happened. So, did you pay the rent?!

Of course, he said. How did you do that if you had no money? they wondered.

He explained that the farmer in the wagon that approached him had offered to buy the produce that would eventually grow on his land. He made an offer but the amount was not enough to pay his rent, and so he DECLINED. That's why the wagon drove on.

But then the farmer changed his mind and drove back. I know you to be an honest person, and if that's what you think you should get, I'll pay you. And the farmer gave him the full amount, whereupon the man could pay his rent!

A modern-day version. I heard this from a cousin of the family. A few years ago, a girl became dangerously ill in a reaction to some medication. She was at death's door, and when the father was at the Ohel and somebody suggested to the father tract gut vet zein gut, he figured he had no other choice.

He decided that if he was truly thinking positively, he would prepare a seudas hoda'a (thanksgiving meal) for his daughter's recovery. He actually called the caterer etc. and yes, his daughter made it to the seuda's hoda'a!

Some people don't understand this and say: but I did think positively and yet it didn't "work." The answer is, these words aren't a mantra to repeat over and over. It's not an "attitude" or about a positive outlook on life.

In the story of paying the rent for example, the host's entire being was one of utter trust that Hashem would enable him to be able to pay the rent. It's a mindset, not a prayer or segula.

yehudis

Mon, Feb 28 2005, 11:28 pm

Motek, I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. Are you saying that whatever a person wants is always good for this person? What if a person wants something and believes it's going to happen, but that something is actually not so good?

To give a simple example, my first labor was 24 hours long, and when I was expecting my second, I asked Hashem for a short labor. Well, it was really short and very intense and much more painful than my first! Next time, I don't think I'm asking for anything specific Smile

.

But seriously, suppose a person wants a certain job and believes that he or she can get that job. Then what would happen if that job is actually not so good for the person?

↑ Motek ↓

Tue, Mar 01 2005, 4:50 pm

there are things we all daven for that are written in our siddur, like health and parnassa

it's part of whatever nusach you daven because health and parnassa are blessings and we need to ask Hashem for these blessings

asking for a SPECIFIC job, a SPECIFIC person that you want to marry, etc. might not be a good idea since we don't know if that particular job or person is best for us

but this is getting into the topic of prayer, while the previous posts are about bitachon, trusting that we will get the money we need, the good health we need, etc.

in the story of the man who went to pay his rent, for example, it wasn't about prayer

it was about the man absolutely trusting that Hashem would provide him with the means to pay the rent

↑ Motek ↓

Thu, Mar 03 2005, 1:12 pm

Here’s a story that can be applied to those situations in which people say: but I really “thought good” and it didn’t work out?!

After giving a speech about bitachon, a student of R’ Yisrael Salanter told his teacher that he was going to stop working and sit and learn because he had faith that the 20,000 rubles he needed would be sent to him directly from Hashem.

A week went by and the man was no richer than before. He came crying to R’Yisrael Salanter and asked: What happened? I had bitachon, but didn’t get any money?!

R’ Yisrael Salanter asked him, “If I give you 8000 rubles cash right now, in exchange for the 20,000 rubles you will be receiving, will you accept that?

The man said, sure! And then R’ Yisrael Salanter said, “Your bitachon can’t be that strong if you are willing to trade 20,000 rubles for 8000 rubles! Obviously your bitachon in my 8000, is greater than your bitachon in Hashem’s 20,000!

↑ Motek ↓

Sun, Mar 13 2005, 5:31 pm

In R' Bachya ibn Pekuda's Chovos Ha'Levavos, shaar ha'bitachon, he writes:

If we knew we had a friend who:

1) never ceases worrying about us
2) is able to fulfill our wishes
3) knows our exact needs and what is good for us
4) controls all the people and powers in the world and does not allow any of them to harm or benefit us without his consent
5) is overflowing with kindness and compassion even if we are undeserving

we would totally relax and stop worrying about ANYTHING.

Hashem is merciful and gracious; He neither slumbers nor sleeps, He is your Father, He made you, Hashem is good to all and His mercy is on all His creations etc.

Tefila

Tue, Mar 29 2005, 11:17 am

Quote:

there are levels in bitachon, for example, the Brisker Rav, during the war, was completely unconcerned about using up the food they had and having nothing for the next day. Today is today, and tomorrow is another day ...

With other things in life we should take the long term approach Exclamation

but w/h bitachon we should not worry what the next day will hold! Interesting way of looking at it.

But don't how we also have to do our part bderech hatevah and then leave the rest up to the Aibishter?

↑ Motek ↓

Tue, Mar 29 2005, 11:21 am

[quote="freilich"]

Quote:

But don't how we also have to do our part bderech hatevah and then leave the rest up to the Aibishter?

yes but while doing things b'derech ha'teva, we must know that it's not what we do that makes a difference (though we have to do it anyway)! In other words, effort must be made, while simultaneously believing that the effort is not what does it. Effort is only made because G-d said to do so.
It's hard!

I heard an amazing story which was printed in the newspaper, and written by an eye-witness. Two men were in Auschwitz, and one said he was convinced he'd live to get out of there. The other one was not that sure he'd make it, and wondered why the other one thought he would. They had this conversation every day, as more and more people died or were killed.

Finally, their turn came and they, among many others, were in the gas chamber. So the conversation repeated itself, with one saying he was absolutely certain he would get out, and the other one resigned to death.

Incredibly, the gas didn't work and the commander came and said the room was too crowded and eight had to leave. The one who believed he would survive, as well as the eye-witness, were among the eight, while the one resigned to death died with all the rest.

***
Tract gut, vet zein gut is not merely an optimistic perspective. It's a mindset of certainty, and it is something that people of all levels can experience. In other words, it is definitely not relegated to tzaddikim. The big question is: how does one "click into" this mindset with nary a doubt ...