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Forum
-> Chinuch, Education & Schooling
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ForeverYoung
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 Thu, Feb 17 2005, 2:52 pm
LOL, you got me 
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technic, thanks 
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Ozmom
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Thu, Feb 17 2005, 3:12 pm
hadassa I think your right about that mum thing. Its totally a personal thing not a Torah thing, coz otherwise why would Rivkah have been given all those gifts?
ok now just to get me straight. Don't worry I'm not really about to go do extra piercings I'm just trying to stir the pot a little and get you guys thinking thats all.
so
| Quote: | | I have a feeling that would attract lots of attention |
facial rings maybe but not an extra earing hole. the only people who would think anything of it is the frum.
my question is why?
| Quote: | | In Tznius there is an issue of Pritzas Geder, meaning not doing what is not accepted in your community. The fact that over 3,000 years ago it was accepted has no bearing on the matter. (Actually, I'm sure you knew that ) |
I know but ok so why is it not accepted is my question.
whats wrong with it? how is it different from one earing in each ear, whats the diff if I get a second earing in one of my ears.
I mean think about it, whats the big deal?
Today perfectly respectable people have second holes, its like nothing diff then one holes nowadays.
multiple holes all the way up around the rim of the ear I can understand would stand out but one little extra stud next to a dangling earing I think looks kinda cute.
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sarahd
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Thu, Feb 17 2005, 3:24 pm
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I have had the same question about girls dyeing their hair. If it's okay to get a perm/straightening and okay to wear makeup, why is it considered "modern" or "unheimish" for a girl to dye her hair?
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ForeverYoung
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Thu, Feb 17 2005, 3:29 pm
good question.
Untill now never knew it was a problem
May be a dramatic colour change...
but not a mild 'enhancememnt'
I actually know somebody who owns black & blond wigs... 
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hadasa
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Thu, Feb 17 2005, 3:30 pm
| Ozmom wrote: |
| Quote: | | I have a feeling that would attract lots of attention |
facial rings maybe but not an extra earing hole. the only people who would think anything of it is the frum. |
I was refering to going with long robes and veils like the Muslims do. 3,000 years ago that's how Jews dressed, but that's not the guidelines we follow now.
| Quote: |
| Quote: | | In Tznius there is an issue of Pritzas Geder, meaning not doing what is not accepted in your community. The fact that over 3,000 years ago it was accepted has no bearing on the matter. (Actually, I'm sure you knew that ) |
I know but ok so why is it not accepted is my question.
whats wrong with it? how is it different from one earing in each ear, whats the diff if I get a second earing in one of my ears.
I mean think about it, whats the big deal?
Today perfectly respectable people have second holes, its like nothing diff then one holes nowadays.
multiple holes all the way up around the rim of the ear I can understand would stand out but one little extra stud next to a dangling earing I think looks kinda cute. |
There's no real reason, except that it's a fairly new thing for "perfectly respectable people" to have two holes, and since there's an issue of Chukas Hagoyim, it takes considerably longer until innovations become accepted in the Frum community, if ever.
And yes, dyeing hair falls in the same category.
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Ozmom
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Thu, Feb 17 2005, 4:07 pm
| Quote: | | There's no real reason, except that it's a fairly new thing for "perfectly respectable people" to have two holes, and since there's an issue of Chukas Hagoyim, it takes considerably longer until innovations become accepted in the Frum community, if ever. |
ooooooo ok so does that mean eventually its gonna be accepted? So then someone has to start right?
hmmmmmm, Ok so whose gonna route for me?
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girliesmommy
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Fri, Feb 18 2005, 2:53 am
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Ok. I asked. It's in Shaarei Halacha U'Minhag. I'm not sure where, but there is an answer from the Lub. Rebbe about piercing ears.
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micki
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Fri, Feb 18 2005, 6:47 am
I learned its acceptable only when they want them. peircing abies is cruel (to me) why hurt them again only for vanity? they have no say.
but a kid who askd for them and understands there will be pain involved and accepts it- then ok. so my 4 yr old got hers dont on her 4th b-day- she'd been driving me nuts since she was 3 and I wanted her to really be old enough to understandd the pain. she got them done and has never looked back. but my 6 yr old is not interested. she hates pain and even the thouh of it makes her squirm- so we'll wait until she tells me she is ready!
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Rivka
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Sat, Feb 19 2005, 2:22 pm
| Quote: | | if Hashem wanted us 2 have holes in our ears we would have been born with them |
Ok, so I can say, we weren't born with clothes, if Hashem wanted us to be dressed he would have put clothes on us in the womb.
I had my ears peirced when I was 7 coz I wanted them peirced. Thing is I don't wear earrings anymore, I don't like them. But I like this discussion about the second ear holes, coz I think if I had made a second hole on the top part of my ear I probably would still be wearing earings.
I asked my mum if I could have a nose ring and told her that Rivka Imeinu and Rochel and all of them from the sounds of those gifts they were given had a nose ring, so why couldn't I. So she said I could...I didn't get it done, coz I wondered how I would blow my nose. But I think if she would have said no, I would have done it. Same with the second hole, she said sure, but then I found out it's more painful so I backed down.
About belly rings of course you can take them out. My friend got one done and she has different ones, so she used to change to different ones and if she didn't want to wear it she wouldn't. Tongue rings is a different story because the tongue heals the quickest, so I don't know how long you can go without the ring without it closing up, but I am sure if you took it out to go to mikvah and put it on straight after, there should be no problem.
I don't remember wanting one of those and a belly ring looks nice, but I was worried about it getting infected. I still like the idea of earing on top of ear coz I think it looks funky a little ring. I do not appreciate lip peircing or eye brow or nipple peircings or other types which I shall not dare to mention here. I do not think anyone notices extra peircings anymore, they are seen as the normal and they don't look vulgar. Would you say a girl dying her hair is also chukas hagoy?
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technic
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Sat, Feb 19 2005, 3:43 pm
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rivka good point abt the clothes BUT 1) clothes arent the same as actually changing ur BODY and 2) if ur not allowed 2 tattoo etc, why r u allowed to pierce???
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sarahd
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Sat, Feb 19 2005, 4:08 pm
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Because there's an issur in the Torah of tatooing yourself, and there isn't one about piercing.
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Ozmom
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Sat, Feb 19 2005, 4:36 pm
Rivka
| Quote: | | Ok, so I can say, we weren't born with clothes, if Hashem wanted us to be dressed he would have put clothes on us in the womb. |
actually there is a meforash that says adam and Chava were created covered in nails as a covering but when they sinned it came off.
ewwwww.....
anyway I enjoyed reading your post, I think your mum must be a clever gal. She obviously knows you really well.
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technic
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Sun, Feb 20 2005, 12:36 am
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sarahd ty...that explains it (now I have to cancel the tattoo!!)(JOKE!)
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Rivka
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Sun, Feb 20 2005, 4:29 am
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what about tatoos that come off, you know they are more like stickers and henna tatoos. I heard tatoos are not allowed coz they are permament and they use a needle for it.
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Tefila
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Sun, Feb 20 2005, 8:19 am
| Quote: | | you know they are more like stickers and henna tatoos |
Sephardi gals do that after their engagement for their henna party, are you sephardi? 
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Rivka
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Tue, Feb 22 2005, 1:18 pm
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Half sephardi Freilich. Anyway, I don't think my mum said I could have a nose ring etc because she knew it'd put me off coz if she knew that was the case, she would have used that tactic alot more.
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Motek
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Tue, Feb 22 2005, 1:46 pm
| Ozmom wrote: | actually there is a meforash that says adam and Chava were created covered in nails as a covering but when they sinned it came off.
ewwwww..... |
why ewwwww? are you picturing them covered with nails as in hammering in a nail? 
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BlumaG
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Tue, Feb 22 2005, 4:05 pm
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NO! fingernails/toenails actually it says their skin was a similar substance to nails
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Tefila
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Tue, Feb 22 2005, 4:12 pm
| Quote: | | NO! fingernails/toenails actually it says their skin was a similar substance to nails |
It still sounds ...... different shall we say
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ForeverYoung
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Tue, Feb 22 2005, 5:33 pm
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well, toe or finger nails, they were the most beautiful people on the Earth
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