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-> In the News
downsyndrome
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 Tue, Sep 12 2006, 6:57 am
May I add my family's story of inspiration that occurred on 9/11? It really is not related much to the title of this thread, but it is a 9/11 story.
My mother had been in remission for cancer r'l. What we children didn't know was that her cancer was returning/had returned. We just saw that she wasn't looking good, wasn't feeling good, etc.
On the morning of Sept. 11 she had an appt. to her oncologist; she told us it was a routine appt. Because she was always so 'pinktlich' she left Wmsbg. early and was in Manhattan by the time the first tower was hit. Once we realized that we were under a terror attack and all lines of transportation to and from the city were cut off, and the air quality was terrible, I quickly called to the doctor's office and told the secretary to tell my mother that she should stay inside until the dust settled outside and that one of us would try to come for her, and that maybe by later in the day there'd be some means of transportation. The secretary told me that my mother had left the office already. We were frantic!!!
Guess what? With her battered, sick body, my mother walked across Manhattan, over the Wmsbg Bridge, for a 3.5 hour trek in the fog, smog, and pollution. She got home safely.
Unfortunately, that was the beginning of the end. She was niftar the following Iyar/May. May she be an inspiration for all and may she shine down on us from Gan Eden, amen.
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Mama Bear
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Tue, Sep 12 2006, 8:36 am
| happy2beme wrote: | | there was a story about a man who was in one of the towers & saw what was happening & quickly called up his rav & gave his wife a get. This man was really brilliant for he didn't know if anyone would ever be able to find him or ID him & instead of saying g'bye to his wife & saying I love u- he did what was really best for her. | there is no such thing as a phone get. You need witnesses and a scribe. This probably is not true.
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shalhevet
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Tue, Sep 12 2006, 8:44 am
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I told this story to my husband and asked if someone can give a get by phone. He said he heard that the man phoned someone and appointed him his shaliach to give the get, and that is halachically OK.
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happy2beme
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Tue, Sep 12 2006, 9:32 am
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thx mummy for the clarification
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supermom
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Tue, Sep 12 2006, 9:33 am
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Mommyof6 I heard the same thing it is allowed to have shliach to be the one giving the get.
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Mama Bear
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Tue, Sep 12 2006, 10:08 am
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a shaliach may deliver the get but the husband has to be present in front of witnesses and a scribe. otherwise anyone can call a rav and pretend to be ploni ben ploni and 'give' a get to his fake wife!
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shoy18
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Tue, Sep 12 2006, 10:10 am
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dont you think they make exceptions in cases like this?
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stem
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Tue, Sep 12 2006, 10:18 am
I dont know if this is true, and I have a hard time believing this, but I heard that a frum man who knew he was about to die, called his wife and told her he was jumping. He wanted them to have no doubt that he was dead so that she would not end up being an aguna.
I don't think there could have been agunas in that case anyway. Anyoen who didn't come back and wasn't found in any hospitals for a while was presumed dead.
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shoy18
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Tue, Sep 12 2006, 10:20 am
| stem wrote: | I dont know if this is true, and I have a hard time believing this, but I heard that a frum man who knew he was about to die, called his wife and told her he was jumping. He wanted them to have no doubt that he was dead so that she would not end up being an aguna.
I don't think there could have been agunas in that case anyway. Anyoen who didn't come back and wasn't found in any hospitals for a while was presumed dead. |
I was under the impression that unless you have a body you cant assume anything
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stem
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Tue, Sep 12 2006, 10:22 am
Maybe that's why he jumped so there would be a body.
Is it really true that if someone is known to have died in a fire and there's no remains, the wife is considered aguna?
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Hashem_Yaazor
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Tue, Sep 12 2006, 10:28 am
| stem wrote: | I dont know if this is true, and I have a hard time believing this, but I heard that a frum man who knew he was about to die, called his wife and told her he was jumping. He wanted them to have no doubt that he was dead so that she would not end up being an aguna.
I don't think there could have been agunas in that case anyway. Anyoen who didn't come back and wasn't found in any hospitals for a while was presumed dead. |
They didn't know the building would collapse, and as such, no one knew at that point that the aguna problem would be able to be resolved as easily as it was by the assumption that no one could have survived the collapse.
But, I do know of a widow who got remarried, and the rav made sure they had found some of her husband's remains first, so I don't know how clear cut the aguna issue really was.
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Chanie
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Tue, Sep 12 2006, 10:33 am
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I know the family of a frum man who was killed at the pentagon that day. (There were Jewish people in the other locations too.)
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red sea
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Tue, Sep 12 2006, 10:50 am
| shoy18 wrote: | | stem wrote: | I dont know if this is true, and I have a hard time believing this, but I heard that a frum man who knew he was about to die, called his wife and told her he was jumping. He wanted them to have no doubt that he was dead so that she would not end up being an aguna.
I don't think there could have been agunas in that case anyway. Anyoen who didn't come back and wasn't found in any hospitals for a while was presumed dead. |
I was under the impression that unless you have a body you cant assume anything |
thats what I heard too.
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shalhevet
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Tue, Sep 12 2006, 10:50 am
I don't know what was the p'sak l'ma'aseh with agunas, but in theory someone who wanted to disappear and was in the area that day could have run away and taken on another identity somewhere else and would have been presumed dead. So I don't know if halachically a wife would be freed from being an aguna if no remains were found.
About the shaliach for a get, I have no idea of the halacha (shelo neida) but maybe if he called someone he knew and gave signs which proved it was him it would count.
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supermom
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Tue, Sep 12 2006, 10:55 am
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It could be the man called his rav that he knew on a personal level so he was able to say that this man was for real?
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red sea
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Tue, Sep 12 2006, 2:55 pm
From a blog I found; 2 frum victims plus touches on the issue of aguna; dont know how accurate but it says he knew them personally;
| Quote: | Monday, September 11, 2006
9/11
Today is not the yahrzeit, but since today is the day the 2996 tributes are going up, here are links to tributes to the two (thank G-d, only two) 9/11 victims we knew personally.
Shimmy Biegeleisen
During high school, The Spouse worked in (or rather bartered in--he took most of his wages in books) the Biegeleisen family seforim store. When we're back in New York, we still stop by the new location in Boro Park, and it's still our go-to store for hard to find Judaica, be it old books or books which one needs a personal reference to be allowed to buy. (Yes, true story.) With one thing and the other, and living in the neighborhood, you get to know nearly everyone, like The Spouse got to know Shimmy.
Shimmy, HY"D, had the zechus of letting his family know where he was, so when the initial psak came out, declaring every unaccounted-for person who was known to be in the Towers at the time of the crash halachically dead, hsi family could begin the process of mourning.
Eliyahu Furman
The Furman family, though, did got get that privilege and had to wait long months until Chavie (my sister-in-law's sister) was declared a widow and not an agunah. I remember seeing her and the kids at our mutual neice's wedding that December, how heartbreaking it was to see those nearly-perfect little angels and realize I was seeing part of their lives that Eliyahu never would.
May G-d avenge their blood.
As a family we were lucky. One of The Spouse's nephews worked in the Towers and was just about to get on an elevator when the first plane hit. He freaked out so badly, just from the sound, that he ran from the building, past the first bridge to Brooklyn and caught himself only at the second. If it had hit one minute later... ut it's hard, thinking abuot hashgacha pratit, because if it was what saved Ari, wasn't it also what doomed Shimmy and Eliyahu? |
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supermom
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Wed, Sep 13 2006, 1:34 am
Very touching. How old was she when she passes away?
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Meema2Kids
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Thu, Sep 14 2006, 1:10 pm
I remember reading the lists of missing people in the days following, and felt like my heart was being stabbed each time I saw a Jewish sounding name... there were so many of them. 
The company Cantor Fitzgerald lost a majority of their employees... many of them Jewish.
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Motek
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Thu, Sep 14 2006, 5:46 pm
re the "get" - the way I heard it was that when Shimmy B. realized that his floor was cut off because of the fire and there was no way he could get out, he called R' Aharon Schechter and told him that, and he said Vidui. Terrifying to think about.
Nothing about a get but if he called and said where he was (and that is where he always was at that time, in his office) then maybe even though he was incinerated, that phone call confirmed his death immediately. Though by the way, gruesome as it sounds, months later bones were identified and there was some kind of burial service.
He had given money to Belz to build their new building in Boro Park. They ended up dedicating the building in his memory (Hashem yinkom damo).
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