I can't imagine that insurance is a lot cheaper here, but we have two cars (both DH and I need it for commuting to work, there are no public transport alternatives).
But your right, if my suggestions dont make it easier, then I'm sure there are alternative, cheap options for local entertainment that would not necessitate a car.
Although I do find some of the harrowing stories about being out with kids a little over dramatized and far fetched. REally? It's that difficult to manage your family???
Although I do find some of the harrowing stories about being out with kids a little over dramatized and far fetched. REally? It's that difficult to manage your family???
Not taking this bait. I repeat, not taking this bait.
Although I do find some of the harrowing stories about being out with kids a little over dramatized and far fetched. REally? It's that difficult to manage your family???
Not taking this bait. I repeat, not taking this bait.
Back to packing!
I'll take it. if you don't live it b'h for you! I'm glad that you didn't have to ever deal with it. no its not exaggerating. I've gotten stuck with a broken elevator and 4 kids. and to top it off a limp crying kid who had a major freak attack. it was not fun. and we had another one earlier in the day wanting to run away. etc....
Although I do find some of the harrowing stories about being out with kids a little over dramatized and far fetched. REally? It's that difficult to manage your family???
Not taking this bait. I repeat, not taking this bait.
Back to packing!
I'll take it. if you don't live it b'h for you! I'm glad that you didn't have to ever deal with it. no its not exaggerating. I've gotten stuck with a broken elevator and 4 kids. and to top it off a limp crying kid who had a major freak attack. it was not fun. and we had another one earlier in the day wanting to run away. etc....
Are you seriously saying that camp is a necessity because an elevator broke down once? What if it had broken down on the way to take the kids to camp? Would you then argue that a single family home is a necessity so that you never have to take an elevator?
Although I do find some of the harrowing stories about being out with kids a little over dramatized and far fetched. REally? It's that difficult to manage your family???
Not taking this bait. I repeat, not taking this bait.
Back to packing!
good for you. I'll take it! thanks hashem that you can't wrap your mind around it . you could afford to learn a little empathy. you sound like those women who role their eyes when someone says they can't loose weight and tells them to just stop eating and excersice......until they have a bad pregnancy that whallups their thyroid and can never get back to their thin self again....or those women with perfect lives who are certain that the only reason for divorce is lack of effort.....until it touches their own family........or those who feel that no one would have money problems if they jusrt worked hard and earned it like her husband and self did....until she gets laid off and her husbands expertise is phased out and replaced by comuters.........your ignorance is bliss for no one but yourself and these things can happen to anyone, no matter how perfect of a mother they are. don't hold yourself so high.
Although I do find some of the harrowing stories about being out with kids a little over dramatized and far fetched. REally? It's that difficult to manage your family???
Not taking this bait. I repeat, not taking this bait.
Back to packing!
I'll take it. if you don't live it b'h for you! I'm glad that you didn't have to ever deal with it. no its not exaggerating. I've gotten stuck with a broken elevator and 4 kids. and to top it off a limp crying kid who had a major freak attack. it was not fun. and we had another one earlier in the day wanting to run away. etc....
Are you seriously saying that camp is a necessity because an elevator broke down once? What if it had broken down on the way to take the kids to camp? Would you then argue that a single family home is a necessity so that you never have to take an elevator?
IM NOW PISSSSSSEDDDDD OFFFFFF!!!!!!
zigi is an amazing mother. She has 5 young children. no one messes with zigi without getting the WRATH of pickle lady.
Im getting sick to my stomach this threading is beyond disgusting. Women with 2 kids are patting themselves on that back that they can take care of their kids in the large suburban home with their playground like back yard.
ALSO BTW I don't consider homeschooling if the child is under 5. They are babies so if your kid is under the age of 5 and is not special needs then you don't get a pat on the back for taking care of your kids. Under the age of 5 kids are super simple and need very little activities or help. Special needs kids are different.
If you don't have kids over the age of 5 or only have 3 kids or live in a suburban area. I have ZERO respect for you on this topic.
kids go to camp on the bus,or they are walked a few blocks over. I do live in a walkup, no bouncing up strollers, if my kid freaks out, its in a safe place.
I am giving an example of taking kids out that can be really hard, I was by myself. some kids really are that difficult.
First of all my SN child watches uncle moishy most of the time that he's home.... but that doesnt stop him from raiding the freezer & crumbling food etc.
Teeny tiny suggestion... we got a fridge lock so that our kids can't get inside and dump everything. $2 very well spent!!!!
If you don't have kids over the age of 5 or only have 3 kids or live in a suburban area. I have ZERO respect for you on this topic.
See, but this attitude is also belittling to other mothers, and is a big part of why the thread is getting so upsetting to some.
Yes, it's not nice if someone says, "Well if I can do it, you should be able to too," although from what I saw Lovemylife was being pretty respectful about recognizing that not all of her suggestions will work for everyone.
But it's also not nice to say, "Well OK you took care of your kids all summer but it doesn't count because you have a car... Oh you don't have a car?... Well then it's not the same because it's really hot here... It's hot there too? Right but not hot in the same way as our hot... " etc. Why this need to prove that any mother who did keep her kids home for the summer must not have really had it hard?
And of course if someone feels she's being told that she didn't have real difficulties to deal with and therefore doesn't really know what it's like, then she'll say that she does, which city-living SAHMs will interpret as "if I can do it so can you" and we all know how that argument goes.
That said I do agree that taking care of 5-and-under age children is pretty different from, say, a 10-year-old. As I recall, the camp/no camp question wouldn't even have come up until around age 9 or 10 when I was growing up (which admittedly was almost a generation ago at this point).
eta - just realized I was speaking regular American English and not frum-ese - "camp" as in "sleep away camp." There were programs available for kids from around age 4 or 5, we would have called them called "summer program" or "summer school," but I assume that a lot of people here would call that "camp," at least when talking about a younger kid.
Last edited by ora_43 on Mon, Jul 11 2011, 1:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
First of all my SN child watches uncle moishy most of the time that he's home.... but that doesnt stop him from raiding the freezer & crumbling food etc.
Teeny tiny suggestion... we got a fridge lock so that our kids can't get inside and dump everything. $2 very well spent!!!!
he's broken a dozen locks by now. he's stronger than me!!!!! I bought $5 locks, every 2 weeks another lock. broken within 2 hours. We've given up .
ehhhh Pickle lady, I have a now 6 yr old who wasnt 'special needs' per se - more of 'a child who needed therapy' - and had I homeschooled him I'd have been in the loony bin. youre doing what a lot of others on this thread have already done .
Since I live in the Bronx, not Brooklyn, I cannot possibly know what it is like to raise a child in a city.
Since my child's disabilities manifest themselves through auditory issues, which caused him to melt down whenever we were near -- not even on, but near, a bus, train, garbage truck or siren for many years, I could not possibly know what it is like to deal with a child with disabilities.
How could I have been so blind not to realize that a typical parent cannot, inherently, deal with her children on a day in, day out basis. That school or camp is a necessity, akin to food and water. Not that there are some families, and some children, that may need a little help now and them, due to particular needs of a child or sibling or parent. (And yes, Mama Bear, I mean you here. Your younger son has needs that must be met, and it would be unfair for your older son to be held captive to that schedule and those needs.) Or that camp is a nice thing for kids. But that the children will literally die without it, and that each and every mother, faced with the task of looking after the children whom she chose to have, and is choosing to stay home with, will become physically and emotionally incapacitated if she must look after them over a vacation.
Having a car in much of NYC is a money suck. Now, if you live in the past-the-subway neighborhoods, where people are living in houses (tightly packed though they may be) and even if not everyone has a driveway some people do so the demand for street parking is a bit less tight, it's one thing. In MB's neighborhood? You need to be rich or crazy. I have a friend who lives in Kensington. Now, that's not such a bad neighborhood for a car. There's a garage in her building, and it's not so expensive. But they still worked out that financially, it was a loss for them. What would really be best for them is Zipcar (since really, what they need it for is occasional excursions and shopping trips) but it's not close enough.
There does reach a point where there simply aren't kids going to camp in a neighborhood, and the way the family is set up, camp Mommy no longer works as well or for as long. (I say this not having kids in the single digits anymore.)
[quote="Mama Bear"][The peklech thing: I admit, I was pretty overboard, esp considering the fact that we still have 2 boxes of peklech sitting around!!!!It's summer and NOBODY came up fo rpeklech except a couple of nieces. LOL. I guess I wanted to be as 'normal' as possible and have nice peklech. it was a dumb move. ]
If anyone has a right to go overboard on upsherin pekelach it's you. You can ship some here ;-)
Although I do find some of the harrowing stories about being out with kids a little over dramatized and far fetched. REally? It's that difficult to manage your family???
Not taking this bait. I repeat, not taking this bait.
Back to packing!
I'll take it. if you don't live it b'h for you! I'm glad that you didn't have to ever deal with it. no its not exaggerating. I've gotten stuck with a broken elevator and 4 kids. and to top it off a limp crying kid who had a major freak attack. it was not fun. and we had another one earlier in the day wanting to run away. etc....
Are you seriously saying that camp is a necessity because an elevator broke down once? What if it had broken down on the way to take the kids to camp? Would you then argue that a single family home is a necessity so that you never have to take an elevator?
IM NOW PISSSSSSEDDDDD OFFFFFF!!!!!!
zigi is an amazing mother. She has 5 young children. no one messes with zigi without getting the WRATH of pickle lady.
Im getting sick to my stomach this threading is beyond disgusting. Women with 2 kids are patting themselves on that back that they can take care of their kids in the large suburban home with their playground like back yard.
ALSO BTW I don't consider homeschooling if the child is under 5. They are babies so if your kid is under the age of 5 and is not special needs then you don't get a pat on the back for taking care of your kids. Under the age of 5 kids are super simple and need very little activities or help. Special needs kids are different.
If you don't have kids over the age of 5 or only have 3 kids or live in a suburban area. I have ZERO respect for you on this topic.
Pickle lady, I am the only one who has mentioned homeschooling and I have the whole time been standng up for ppl in all other situations so I am offended actually. I dont feel like I deserved that comment about homeschooling, especially when you dont know me or my situation and when I have not been one of the judgemental ones!
My kids happen to be 3 and almost 6 but here in England first of all school starts at 4 (so it would be homeschooling by then) and everyone and I mean everyone sent to nursery at 2. Furthermore you are not being fair saying that staying home with an under 5 year old is a breeze. My 3 year old is the one that has me ripping my hair out my head compared my ds is a breeze furthermore, for me its the under 4's thats hard not the over so jus because that having a baby for you is easy it jolly well doesnt mean it is for everyone. As an aside it would also be a bit weird saying I am homeschooling my 5 year old but not my 3 year old who is just at home with me, she wont go to school though so she will be homeschooled. ITs a bit simpler saying I am homeschooling my kids. Anyways, I dont see much happening because my child turned 4 (england) or if I was in the US 5. I wouldnt do anything different just because of a birthday so honestly, I am homeschooling or not schooling or unschooling or keeping-at-home both my kids.
I find having a baby really hard. Ds is my first and it was hell for me when he was a baby, havng ppd didnt help of course, but it was hell to be frank. I am in no way saying that having 5 kids isntt hard, I a trying to put in perspective that a mother of one or two can still understand how hard it is having a baby and it can be hard t be home witht her baby and not neccesarily her 5 year old. I'd any day choose to be hoome with a 5 year old over a baby or a 2 year old. Having 2 can also be hard even if you have a garden.
To all you others such as Barbara and Lovemylife, can you guys ppl get over yourselves!!! I too am not gonna sit here while you attack Zigi, I also know her and believe me she is a good mother and di NOT deserve that comment, she gives all to her children, all the time! Please get over yourself! You dont deserve a pat on the back for coping with your families and then judging someone elses. You dont find it hard, fine, others do! Others might not have all the advantages you have!!! Unless you have walked in someone elses shoes dont judge!! You hve no idea of what reality is for some other ppl so dont judge!
Although I do find some of the harrowing stories about being out with kids a little over dramatized and far fetched. REally? It's that difficult to manage your family???
Not taking this bait. I repeat, not taking this bait.
Back to packing!
I'll take it. if you don't live it b'h for you! I'm glad that you didn't have to ever deal with it. no its not exaggerating. I've gotten stuck with a broken elevator and 4 kids. and to top it off a limp crying kid who had a major freak attack. it was not fun. and we had another one earlier in the day wanting to run away. etc....
Are you seriously saying that camp is a necessity because an elevator broke down once? What if it had broken down on the way to take the kids to camp? Would you then argue that a single family home is a necessity so that you never have to take an elevator?
IM NOW PISSSSSSEDDDDD OFFFFFF!!!!!!
zigi is an amazing mother. She has 5 young children. no one messes with zigi without getting the WRATH of pickle lady.
Im getting sick to my stomach this threading is beyond disgusting. Women with 2 kids are patting themselves on that back that they can take care of their kids in the large suburban home with their playground like back yard.
ALSO BTW I don't consider homeschooling if the child is under 5. They are babies so if your kid is under the age of 5 and is not special needs then you don't get a pat on the back for taking care of your kids. Under the age of 5 kids are super simple and need very little activities or help. Special needs kids are different.
If you don't have kids over the age of 5 or only have 3 kids or live in a suburban area. I have ZERO respect for you on this topic.
Pickle lady, I am the only one who has mentioned homeschooling and I have the whole time been standng up for ppl in all other situations so I am offended actually. I dont feel like I deserved that comment about homeschooling, especially when you dont know me or my situation and when I have not been one of the judgemental ones!
My kids happen to be 3 and almost 6 but here in England first of all school starts at 4 (so it would be homeschooling by then) and everyone and I mean everyone sent to nursery at 2. Furthermore you are not being fair saying that staying home with an under 5 year old is a breeze. My 3 year old is the one that has me ripping my hair out my head compared my ds is a breeze furthermore, for me its the under 4's thats hard not the over so jus because that having a baby for you is easy it jolly well doesnt mean it is for everyone.
I find having a baby really hard. Ds is my first and it was hell for me when he was a baby, havng ppd didnt help of course, but it was hell to be frank. I am in no way saying that having 5 kids isntt hard, I a trying to put in perspective that a mother of one or two can still understand how hard it is having a baby and it can be hard t be home witht her baby and not neccesarily her 5 year old. I'd any day choose to be hoome with a 5 year old over a baby or a 2 year old. Having 2 can also be hard even if you have a garden.
To all you others such as Barbara and Lovemylife, can you guys ppl get over yourselves!!! I too am not gonna sit here while you attack Zigi, I also know her and believe me she is a good mother and di NOT deserve that comment, she gives all to her children, all the time! Please get over yourself! You dont deserve a pat on the back for coping with your families and then judging someone elses. You dont find it hard, fine, others do! Others might not have all the advantages you have!!! Unless you have walked in someone elses shoes dont judge!! You hve no idea of what reality is for some other ppl so dont judge!
Maybe its time for you to get over yourself.
YOU don't know what reality is in the world.
Reality is children in the US whose only food comes from the school lunch program. ONLY food. That's it for the day.
Reality is children who don't have shoes without holes in them. Who don't have a warm coat in the winter. Whose heat has been turned off, so their parents turn on the oven to keep them warm. Who live in homes where there are rats and the roof leaks and the windows are broken.
Reality is children who are homeless.
Reality is no medical insurance. No dental care.
Reality is one in every 4 children in the US has struggled with hunger in the last year.
Reality is inadequate day care in the US, so that parents who need to work can't, or face the question of what to do with their children when they do work.
Reality is that outside of the US, in third world countries, children starve to death. Every day EVERY SINGLE DAY 16,000 children die of hunger related causes. Six million children die of hunger every year.
THAT IS REALITY.
So yes, if someone is saying that she once got stuck in an elevator with her kids, and it was terrible, and so people should use their limited charity dollars to send her kids to camp, I'm going to be thinking of that baby who might have lived if the money had been used to feed her instead. And when other people talk about needing charity for their kids to go to camp because otherwise they won't be able to cook dinner and clean their apartments, I cry for the babies who will die because charity that could be used to save them is going to pay for mom's respite.
THAT IS REALITY.
Reality is not the rarefied privileged world in which every small problem and deprivation is catastrophic. In which being bored, or overworked, or not having the time or energy to do laundry is deemed a tragedy.
Raising kids is tough. Keeping them happy and entertained is tough.
That's reality, too. And that's the kind of reality that every person should consider when they decide to have children.
So let's talk reality here about what is and is not needed in this world.
Barbara, you are comparing situations that are not comparable. Sure, in the world in general, there are dire situations, but I think most frum Jews give donations to organizations that help our own, in our own city or in EY which is related to us all.
Plus, the reality you speak of is not considered acceptable and fine. It should not be the standard by which we judge the meaning of normal need.
.
