Frustrated and Disgusted by student..NEED ADVICE!!

↑ Tamiri

Wed, Jun 01 2011, 9:43 am

(1) I don't think a child should be punished because his parents are obtuse (the parents' behavior is rightfully taking center stage in the OPs resentment, or that's what is coming through)
(2) To all the experienced and up and coming top-of-the-line trainees: sometimes, you have to toss whatever you know out the window because along comes a kid that the books never described and you've never taught/read about/learned about such a child. That's when innovation and outside help need to be employed.

↑ amother ↓

Wed, Jun 01 2011, 9:44 am

I am going to write this anonymously in case my daughter's teacher is on but this board but I too have a third grader, a daughter whose teacher I no longer get along with. She hasn't been teaching for 25 years like you (more like 6) but she thinks she knows everything. Everything with her is rules and more rules, she has a bad case of yekkishness ( I'm one quarter yekke so I know it when I see it). In all the many years that my kids have been attending school she is the only one who has ever repeatedly sent home a note telling me to call her. Not once did she pick up the phone to call me herself. Of course I refuse to call her and ignore all her threats. When I got a note home how my daughter won't get her papers anymore because she hasn't been having them signed and I'll have to come down to the school to get it, that was really the last straw. She can bully my kid, maybe, but certainly not me. I told my daughter I guess she just won't get her papers and that she works to please me, not the teacher. This teacher threatens the kids into doing their work. It's just night and day as compared to other teachers my kids have had. Knowing how busy I am and how things can get at home they always worked with me and with my children. When my kids weren't sufficiently motivated they'd bribe them with small prizes but more so with words "Oh, you're so smart, I know you can do it". "Where is my handsome smart _____?" They gave them "responsibilities" in the classroom and you know what? I don't have the time to work with my kids very much so the teacher's motivation has been crucial and it always worked when it came from love.

Just my perspective of know-it-all teachers.

↑ amother ↓

Wed, Jun 01 2011, 9:58 am

Personally, I think that Shoshina, you sound like a parent who is in alot of pain, and that is blocking you from actually understanding what I wrote in my last post. there are many teachers all across NY and NJ who have 25, 30 or even 40 years exp. in the field. I feel the anger in your post and no I do not feel that the child 'got the best of me' or anything like that, and I also was thinking to just exclude him from maybe a half hour at most) of a party that will last for at least an hour..I asked for advice on this forum, not to become a target for you to vent on, nor for your rectriminations..and if the mother would go on forums like this, maybe she would be able to see the other side of the picture, she sounds just like you, only able to see her own view. I sgugest you read my last post with a more open mind.
aA far as 'identifying' me, trust me, I am one of many, many teachers who is constantly being abused by parents like you, yet still does her job to the best of her ability for the kids sake. and I am disgusted by the system, and parents who are in denial, NOT by the child, who is a victim of circumstance. Let me clarify that, at least. I do plan to give him an award for some areas which he has tried in in the past, and I will talk to him and try to motivate him today, DESPITE 'advice' from paretns/people like you...If this is how you react when people are truly asking for help, or vneting, I feel sorry for both you and those who come to you for help...

↑ amother ↓

Wed, Jun 01 2011, 10:04 am

And, BTW, the reason I left the other job was that after many, many years of happy parents and kids they asked me to take a pay cut (along with all the other teachers), and I wouldnt. I had many upset parents call me that their daughters were very disappointed to not have me as a teacher, just so you know. I did not want to leave but had no choice.
Also, the book gryp recommended sounds great, and I have heard of this before. Where can I get it? I would love to read any and all new methods...

↑ shoshina ↓

Wed, Jun 01 2011, 10:12 am

amother wrote:

Amother guess what? I have no children yet. I am just intellectually shocked that a 45 year old woman needed to get the best of an eight year old. When, B'H, I have children, I will absolutely not allow them to be taught by people who think that after a year of misbehavior, excluding them from a party is a logical or useful "teaching" tool.

↑ gryp ↓

Wed, Jun 01 2011, 10:36 am

amother wrote:

I posted a link to amazon, it's probably also in y our library.
I'm recommending that people pay the ten bucks to buy it, not because I get commission or anything, but because you will want to keep this information handy. I borrowed it from a friend and regret not buying it. I'm not even a teacher (not in the past 7 years anyway) and it is so useful for me as a parent. And I only read it last week. For example, I've scrapped my points system that I have with my kids because the book explains how and why it doesn't motivate them internally. And any lesson I want my kids to acquire needs to be internal in order to last. It explains all the hows, whys, wheres, whats, and whens about motivating kids, and even though I knew some of it before- like who doesn't know that if you reward a kid for making his bed, he'll need a bigger reward next time- the book really explains it thoroughly.

Also Rich Lavoie is one of my heroes for what he's done to spread awareness about special needs kids and how we need to lead and direct them.

↑ life'sgreat ↓

Wed, Jun 01 2011, 10:42 am

amother wrote:

Ah, I think with each additional post you're proving what some of us have been saying in this thread.

I'm still rankled by the title of this thread. I thought this was going to be a thread about a student that 'made out' in public or the like. Not a troubled third grader. I'm not sure where disgusted comes into all of this.

I'll repeat what I said above - it's appalling to think that a "teacher with 25 years of experience" would think it appropriate to have the last laugh on the back of a troubled student by cutting their party time short. That's cruel, completely ineffective and just gives you the feeling that you won this battle while leaving a sad child behind that will most likely remember this awful experience for life. You aren't teaching them anything other than that there are teachers that are vindictive and cruel.

I also think you need to reread what I quoted and perhaps see that this can be turned around on you and see that you can't see another viewpoint and thus, need to attack those that are giving you another viewpoint. No wonder the mother is behaving the way she is (I'm NOT saying that she isn't a problem, but frankly, with your attitude, I think most moms would behave as she is).

Barbara ↓

Wed, Jun 01 2011, 10:47 am

amother wrote:

If you are neither a mother or a teacher, certainly you should not be commenting on this issue, since you cannot possibly understand the viewpoints preesented here..that explains alot...

OP, you've received a number of interesting and helpful comments here. The fact that you're dismissing every negative comment out of hand tells me a lot about you. As does the fact that you were in a girls' school, and are now teaching boys. You need to take a step back and consider what you have done to create this situation. (And FTR, while Shoshina may not yet have kids, she was one once, and can therefore intelligently comment on what works in a classroom.)

I have a child who can be challenging. By experience, I can tell you that teachers who label him in the manner that you labeled this child have a bad year with him.

Teachers who are positive and encouraging absolutely adore him, have called him their greatest success story (a gemorah teacher who, at my suggestion, became more positive with him, and saw him move from a C student to the top student in the class), and requested that he be placed in their class year after year.

Unfortunately, I my insurance maxed out on therapy for the former type of teacher, so we try to keep his self esteem in place the best that we can.

If you ban this child from the party, you will come off as a nasty and vindictive woman who could not control or manage her class throughout the year, and has a twisted and perverted need for revenge at the end of the school year. Its not an impression you want to make.

↑ amother ↓

Wed, Jun 01 2011, 10:57 am

Many posters commented that they cannot believe the OP is referring to a third grader in this manner.
Have any of those posters actually taught or teach children around this age?Children are children and they are sweet and delicious. But when you teach them (regardless of the age) you see them for what they are capable of. OP knows what normal third grade behavior is supposed to be like. When she describes a child this way, it doesn't make her a bad teacher, it makes her normal. She is not venting in the teachers room. She is venting here. In addition, she seems to have heard what posters were telling her. Come on, don't we all get worked up about certain things but after thinking them through never carry out what we had planned. Let her vent. As to how she describes herself... I don't know who she is and I cannot say if she is a truly successful teacher or not. BUT teaching can be very, very challenging (and rewarding!) and therre is nothing wrong with OP appreciating her accomplishments in this area.

intrigued ↓

Wed, Jun 01 2011, 10:58 am

amother wrote:

If you are neither a mother or a teacher, certainly you should not be commenting on this issue, since you cannot possibly understand the viewpoints preesented here..that explains alot...

That was an extremely intelligent response coming from the most amazing teacher for 25 years. seriously! If you dismiss everyone as quickly as that I don't know if we can believe your description of this boy and his mother!

Why on earth is someone who isn't a mother not qualified to have an opinion on this subject? First you write her off thats he obviously had bad experience. Now this?

I also think that it was insensitive but coming from someone who has no problem letting a student miss the end of the year party because you don't get along with his mother I am not surprised! Are you aware how damaging that could be to the child?? And I am sorry I am not a mother of a child in school yet so I guess my opinion doesn't count Rolling Eyes

.

I just pray that my kids get more understanding and in touch teachers than this poor boy has! I really feel sorry for him. And if indeed you are correct that he comes from a troubled home then even more so! So he has trouble at home and at school. I really hope he gets a chance to shine in the future.

↑ amother ↓

Wed, Jun 01 2011, 11:01 am

I'm amother above.
One more thing. You probably should not ban him from coming to the party. I wouldn't choose him to recieve some special award or prize. (Some teachers will do that for a child who is behaving very negatively in the hopes that singling them out in a good way will lift the child. IMO it is just unfair to the good, sweet, obedient children who try their best to do the right thing.) Getting back to the party... If you don't allow him to come to part or all, he will just hate you. My guess is it will do little for him except help him hate you more.

↑ intrigued ↓

Wed, Jun 01 2011, 11:06 am

amother wrote:

So suddenly we are worried if the child will hate US! What ever happened to be worried about long term damages to this poor child?? I am getting more and more shocked reading this thread. I just hope my children are never in the care of people like that.

qtpie

Wed, Jun 01 2011, 11:11 am

There is nothing wrong with being frustrated by a student. There is everything wrong with showing the kid your frustration and projecting the negativity onto him.

You need to look at it as a nisayon from Hashem. He Put you in this situation, and although we don't know why, it can be for any number of reasons....maybe it was to humble you and show you that despite all your teaching experience, you do NOT always have the answer or the ability to deal with every kid. Only G-d is perfect, no human is.

If I were you, I'd go over to him during the party on the last day, and pull him aside. I'd say "I know things have not always been smooth with you in the class. But I know that one day you will go far in life. I want to wish you a wonderful summer, and I look forward to hearing great things about you! I hope we can be in touch next year."

And really call him next year to check up on him.. You may be saving his life.

Trust me, it will be hard to say this to him, and you may feel as if you are loosing the battle. But isn't it worth it to LOSE the battle in order to WIN the war---his ultimate success in life?!

ora_43 ↓

Wed, Jun 01 2011, 11:27 am

I think people are being way too harsh on OP.

Yes, some 9 or 10-year-olds who misbehave are really sweet and just misunderstood and all they need is lots of hugs and someone to listen.

And some have serious emotional/psychological issues and are capable of truly disgusting behavior. (Not that it's "their fault" in the way it'd be a grown-up's fault, not that they're disgusting people, but the behavior is really horrible.) And no amount of hugs will help without serious therapy, and even that might not be enough.

So many people seem to be assuming OP is dealing with the former; why not give some credit to the person who actually knows the kid and has experience as a teacher, that maybe just maybe she really is dealing with the latter? Maybe she's not, but at least don't assume that the child is just misunderstood and just needs positivity.

I agree with everyone that there's no point punishing the kid just to make an example of him, but give OP some credit, she agreed with the criticism and decided not to do it.