Frustrated and Disgusted by student..NEED ADVICE!!

amother ↓

Tue, May 31 2011, 7:58 pm

Hi Im a teacher for over 25 years. I just switched jobs this year and am now in a school where the chutzpah is unbelievable, not to mention the spoiling of the kids, as well as what the school will tolerate . In my class, I run a tight ship, and even kids that were considered 'impossible' I BH have eating out of my hand by now. However, there is this one kid who transferred out from a 'chasidish' type school. He has a giant chip on his shoulder since supposedly (although they deny it) the school promised to place him in another class and lucky me! he ended up in mine. Since his mother is also a teacher (but far less experienced than I ) she refuses to listen to my issues with him, and has denied the reality since Sept, stating that 'its my problem' and continuously defending her son. His chutzpah is beyond belief..but worse than that is his constant lies. He lies about everything, from finishing assignments to denying his culpability for any situation(even those I witnessed with my own eyes) and I believe he has severe anger/emotional problems. I have tried everything, from positive reinforcement, to punishment, to ABA techniques..but nothing works and there are no parents 'at home' to talk to. My principal is ineffective, and has 'given up' on the mother, which in essence leaves me to deal with this alone, and I was told to be 'positive' with him, which is impossibe since he is a very negaive, conniving child..I am sure he will end up in deep trouble, knowing the depth of his dishonesty and his sneaky actions in all situations. The year is almost over but I feel that I need to 'make an example' of him, somehow, at least to show the rest of the class that this will not be tolerated by me. Since in all my 25+ years, I have never encountered such an extreme case, how can I do so in the best, most effective way? Advice please....

↑ amother ↓

Tue, May 31 2011, 8:18 pm

I agree with you both but what I am syaing is, basically, that this child is trying to influence the others to be just like himself. All year I have been trying to be positive and have let him get away with minimal consequences. The other students already know that I love them, he is the issue here. Does he feel the disdain I have for him? Probably. Does he care? Probably not..since he flaunts his chutzpah in the face of all authority. Yes you are right, he is a yiddishe neshoma..but chinuch is my business, and wouldnt I be amiss in my chinuch capabilities if I alloed him to show the other children that one CAN get away with chutzpah, lies, and anything else? That he is not liable for his actions?

pickle ↓

Tue, May 31 2011, 8:23 pm

I don't understand the point in "making an example" out of him with the school year over so soon. You only have a little bit longer with your students before the school year is up; it is not worth it to get all flustered over it. You are not going to change him and it sounds like your other students already behave very well. So what are you going to gain? At least he didn't influence the other students. Leave your students with positive feelings for school year. Also, don't take his behavior so personally. I know you have 25 years of experience and you pride yourself on having all the other children so well behaved, but this is a child that obviously does not fit into the typical mold and probably different techniques that you are not used to employing would work better for him.

↑ amother ↓

Tue, May 31 2011, 8:29 pm

You are probably right..I have taught all grades from 1-12 but this kid, due to his inability to tell the truth, plus the lack of support and dialogue with his parents, are what I think have made him what he is today. I do feel that it is my job to be 'mechanech' him to the point of acceptable behavior, but maybe you are right, maybe I should just let it go and pretty much focus on all the other kids in the class. I have tried the special ed ABA techniques, positive reinforcement, speaking to him, pretty much anything and everything but I think that his parents are also to blame here, since they do not support/reinforce what I do in school. The prinicipal, too, is very weak in her stand and always supports the parents/child over her teachers...so that doesnt help..well thanks for letting me vent, anyway..even after this long in the profession (which I LOVE, BTW) you can still find that one thorn on the rose, I guess...

↑ amother ↓

Tue, May 31 2011, 8:30 pm

You sound like an execellent teacher. It seems like you have tried every "trick" in your bag. You have tried to work with the parents. You have tried to work with the administration. You have given your all so you are finished. From the way you described your classroom I am sure the other students realize that unfortunately this child is "off". They may be mimicking his behavior but that is probably due to "Spring fever" or perhaps bullying from this child. Just love him (although you may still need to call him on things and be firm) and daven for him. He obviously needs a lot of help and if his parents and/or the school won't give it to him then he certainly can use your tefilos.
Good luck! I know it can be so hard. (I am also a teacher.) Just be thankful that you are only with this child through June. And remember pray for him.

DovDov

Tue, May 31 2011, 8:33 pm

Third grade? I thought you were talking about a teenager here.

A third grader needs love. Yes, he cares. Unless he has a serious psychiatric disorder, in which case you should feel pity, not disdain. Don't worry about your other students. If you're consistent with everyone else but treat him more kindly, they'll understand why. Kids get it when someone is different or needs different treatment. Especially since you say you've already got a great relationship with the rest of the class.

gryp ↓

Tue, May 31 2011, 8:35 pm

If you have not "made an example" of him yet, you never will.
Do you want to break him?
As Rich Lavoie says, how much power do you need?

Chinuch is not about breaking people into submission. "Al pi darko" means this child is not a good shidduch for your teaching personality and does not belong in your class.

Have pity on him, he is practically just out of diapers. He needs help and direction, not disgust and disdain thrown at him. Do you seriously think you can teach him ANYTHING with those emotions being thrown about? Have you ever learned anything from someone who felt disdain or disgust for you?

Why don't you smile at him and tell him that you think he's a terrific kid. I am sure you can come up with a few reasons if you try.

↑ amother ↓

Tue, May 31 2011, 8:40 pm

Honestly, when I taught teenagers, many of them were easier to read and reach than this child! Yes, I believe he does have an emotional issue, certainly he has anger management issues, as well as impulse control issues..but thats neither here nor there. I think that I do need to pray for him becuase I have done everything else. Can I love him? As much as I can and do love any of my students, this one is just harder because he reacts to love with hate and indifference (another sign of an emotinal issue). Based on the advice I got tonight though. I am going to reconsider making an example of him, even in the smallest way, since many of you are right. I need to refocus my energy on davening for him and trying to get him to be more positive in his outlook. Although I have tried before, I guess I will try again..what you said about the other kids realizing he is 'off' that is certainly true..I guess it was my own ego that made me take his behavior personally instead of focusing on his pain and anger, certainly signs of frustration and low self esteem, both of which he does have...thanks for helping me refocus!

sneakermom

Tue, May 31 2011, 9:25 pm

I am pained reading your post. More for this poor child, than you I might add. He is in a position in which he is in deep trouble, and the people around him don't have the expertise to help him - so they blame him, hate him, and "make an example out of him".

Sometimes we will come across things in life that we can't make sense of and we must have the humility to admit that to ourselves. We have to be strong enough to tolerate the confusion of not knowing, instead of attributing our own fabricated reasons to it.

This child might have a mental illness, might be adhd, might have an attachment disorder, might have a sensory condition, might be starving for attention due to neglect....etc. All these issues, are way more than a teacher is equipped to handle.

It is not your fault that you have not found an effective way to deal with him. And that is okay. But realize something important, HE MAKES YOU FEEL INEFFECTIVE. You like to have things under control, and he is throwing it all off kilter.

What I recommend is showing your little students your humanity. Show them that you will respect this child's neshamah and that you can tolerate not having all the answers. Try to be kind to this child, and don't expect anything in return. Ignore what you can't fix and focus on what you can do.

You can be a great teacher to the rest of the class. You can smile at this child. You can give this child the message that he is worthy even though he isn't living up to your standards. That he has value just because. And you can let it be. Hashem created this child, and only Hashem knows exactly what's this child's destiny.

↑ amother ↓

Tue, May 31 2011, 9:56 pm

As a parent who has one child who behaves similarly (overly fudges truths to put to nicely, sneaky, likes to manipulate situations, and has definite anger issues) it pains me to read your post and we are very far from chassidish.

My child needs love encouragment and positiveness. His progress might not be as fast as his teacher likes, but trying to break my child and help set up a disasterous path is cruel and so terrible. There is still the possibilty of a bright shining future for especially such a young child. Children need help. Not breaking.

It really seems like you are not working with the mother. She told you what she thinks her child needs, mothers know their children best, what makes them tick and what motivates their actions- even if they aren't the bigger expert than you.

I have had a rotten school year because of teachers with the attitude in your first post.

Maybe this child is out of your league in the amount of help needed to fix the issues. He probably needs help outside of the classroom and parents. But writing off the mother as she doesn't know is awful.

Ka'mayim panim el panim... the child knows how you feel and really - who likes to please someone with such negative attitude towards them. Children arent dumb.

My son is very smart but the attitude of his teacher is making him hate learning which only adds to the problems that already need help. Each child is a precious neshama with great potential - you might not be up to the challenge of this one, but success with the toughest kids has the biggest payoffs.

Sincerely,

Broken hearted angry parent that is counting the days to be done with a teacher with an attitude similar to your first post who is harming my precious child who just needs love and help each day

groisamomma

Wed, Jun 01 2011, 12:23 am

amother wrote:

I don't think you should project your hurt feelings for your child onto this teacher (op). There are quite a few differences that I plainly see. Firstly, op said that the mother flatly denies her kid has issues and you admit there are some. Second, that mother not only denies it but refuses to work with the teacher at all, who, unlike your child's teacher, WANTS to help fix things and has tried everything she can think of. And thirdly, you may have told your child's teacher what your son needs but op said outright that this mother does not see the child for what he is in the classroom and therefore she is unable to give the teacher any insight at all to help the situation. Your son's teacher sounds uncooperative and immature whereas op is begging for the MOTHER to be cooperative and mature about it.

OP: Is there a guidance counselor in your school?

Tamiri ↓

Wed, Jun 01 2011, 12:36 am

Honestly, if a teacher came across to me as you do, as a "know it all" and everyone else is basically ineffective, I'd shut down too. Being a teacher for so many years is remarkable, but it doesn't make you
G-d. Maybe this is HIS way of putting you in your place and showing you that knowing it "all" doesn't quite cut it. For all the kids who you can help, there is the one who will challenge you and stretch you to your limits. Add to it seemingly uncaring parents and you have your work cut out for you. This type of child needs extra help. While it's possible at grade 3 for the child to be a sociopath, why not give him the benefit of the doubt.
Did you consult with REAL experts on challenging children? There is probably a key to reach him, and if the parents aren't doing it, you may have a chessed opportunity to take him under your wing, give him extra attention and perhaps put him a little bit more on the derech. Maybe give him extra, private time? Show him he's worth something to someone. Remove the labels of "anger management" and "liar" and you may have a scared little boy (yes, third grade is just coming out of babyhood for a boy) who is overwhelmed with life and has no where to turn.
Perhaps YOU are the one who will make THE difference in his life?
With regards to the other children: most kids WANT to behave and WANT their teacher to like them. Do you REALLY think you need to point out this boy's abnormality even more? It's enough for them to know that normal children will be dealt with in normal ways, and leave him out of it. Again, you may be a shaliach for his future....

leomom

Wed, Jun 01 2011, 12:41 am

OP, what does the child enjoy? What are his strengths? What are his hobbies? What makes him excited? Whatever the answers - those are your keys to connecting with this boy positively. Show an interest in what he likes and invite him to bring his interest into the class in some way - a demonstration, report, show-and-tell - whatever fits in with how you do things in class. (Obviously invite other kids to do the same.) Then you can show genuine appreciation to him for sharing and for his skills in [magic/skateboarding/juggling/drawing/music/etc.] and hopefully end the year on a good note.