Issues in school-dont know what to do, please advice

amother ↓

Fri, Oct 30 2009, 3:30 pm

My son is 6 years old and is in 1st grade. I was told by the teacher that he requires a lot of attention. Meaning he always hugs her, and wants to talk to her all the time, same with other kids. She said he doesnt have boundries in terms of needing attention and knowing when to stop talking or getting upset if he doesnt get any. For example: there were kids reading a book together in a corner and he wanted to join, the teacher heard the conversation clearly and she heard the kids tell my son come join us, yet he still cried and felt like they rejected him, when they clearly didnt. So she said its pretty often that he acts this way and this week was the "worst", but she said I shouldnt feel like its so horrible that all kids at this age have issues with boundries and need to work on realizing that they are not the only ones in the world, but she feels like my son has a bit more to work on then the rest.
I dont know how to approach this, I want to help him, but at the same time I feel like its all my fault and ive done something wrong and I dont know where. I am just freaking out a bit, I dont know maybe my parenting skills are horrible and I missed something. Can this be fixed? Can I help him? What can I change?

supermama2

Fri, Oct 30 2009, 5:00 pm

Did the teacher advise you on steps to take? Surely she's seen this before as kids go through so many phases..even 6 year olds.

↑ amother ↓

Sat, Oct 31 2009, 6:48 pm

All the teacher said is that kids to go through "I am the only one in the world" phase, and she thinks that with repetation of the rules etc, he will get it. But it made me feel as though his actions were more pronounced then other kids actions. Like as if he was more then normal. It was implied and not directly said. She said he doesnt have boundries, in other words he likes to hug her a lot, and sometimes says things during circle time out of context to what they are learning. Her biggest point was that he seeks too much attention from her and doesnt understand that other kids need it too. I dont know what I am supposed to do about it and what that means.

Fox ↓

Sun, Nov 01 2009, 1:45 am

Assuming that the OP is giving us all the facts, which she seems to be doing, this is the kind of behavior on the part of teachers/schools that makes me boil!

Let me summarize:

The teacher calls with a concern. She presents one example, though she alludes to others without providing any details. She says "all kids go through this, but maybe your son is having more trouble than others." She then ends the conversation.

I suppose shooting her or her principal isn't practical, but it sure is tempting. This is the kind of unprofessional behavior that completely undoes all those articles in the Yated, Hamodia, etc., where teachers and experts in chinuch whine about how unsupportive parents are! Well, if they behave like this, they don't deserve our support, and they probably shouldn't be teaching at all.

Now, in defense of the teacher, my guess is that, basically, the Abishter is in charge of training and monitoring her. The principal probably doesn't observe her class regularly and probably spends little time with her unless parents are complaining.

Here's how the conversation should have gone:

Quote:

TEACHER: Hi, Mrs. Amother. This is Yossi's teacher, Mrs. GoodChinuch.

MRS. AMOTHER: Oh, hi, Mrs. GoodChinuch. How are you?

TEACHER: Boruch Hashem. I just wanted to call to let you know how much I'm enjoying Yossi in the class. He obviously loves to come to school, and it shows. You must have really encouraged him to have such a positive attitude.

MRS. AMOTHER: Oh, well, thanks. Nothing special.

TEACHER: Well, it's a real pleasure to have him. I also wanted to ask your help in finding ways for him to make the transition from kindergarten to 1st grade. You know, a lot of kids this age find it hard to go from kindergarten, where everything is very touchy-feeling-huggy, to 1st grade, which is little more formal and demanding. Yossi seems to want a lot of physical affection -- he hugs me a lot -- and he gets very upset and sometimes cries if he feels no one is paying attention to him. Has he mentioned anything to you?

MRS. AMOTHER: Uh, no. Is this something I should be worried about?

TEACHER: Not at all. As I said, this is a common developmental stage. I just want to make sure we give Yossi whatever help he needs to make the transition smoothly. Like everything else, some kids find it easy while others find it harder. Can I give you an example, and maybe we can figure out together how to handle similar situations in the future?

MRS. AMOTHER: Um, sure.

TEACHER: Okay. Yesterday Yossi wanted to join a group of kids reading a book in the corner during play time. He came to me, and he asked me to take him over to the group. I suggested that he ask them himself if he might join them, and I suggested how he could ask nicely. I listened while he asked, and the kids were happy to have him join them. However, he began to cry anyway because he wanted me to take him. I calmed him down, but he was very clingy and wanted lots of hugs and physical affection the rest of the day. Of course, I'm happy to help the kids at any time, but I want Yossi to gain confidence in his own abilities to handle situations like this. Do you have any thoughts on how I might help him with this?

MRS. AMOTHER: Well, not really. He may be feeling a little neglected at home because I have an infant to care for, but otherwise, not really.

TEACHER: Well, like I said, this is not a serious problem. I just want Yossi to feel strong and confident. Let's do this: Maybe you could give him a little pep talk about being in "big boy school," and how he's old enough now to do some things without Morah. I'll also give him a little pep talk at a time when he's relaxed, and I'll give him two new things to do each day. For example, I'll ask him to help another child with a project or ask a classmate to join a game. Nothing too big -- just little actions that will build his confidence. I'll give him a sticker when he completes each new "act of independence," and I'll send home the paper each day with the stars. Maybe you could make a big deal out of it and even give him a little prize every so often. Obviously, you know his personality better than I do. Do you think that might help him?

MRS. AMOTHER: Oh, sure, I'll be happy to try that.

TEACHER: Great! Let's see how it goes for a week or two, and if he's still feeling clingy, we'll see what else we can think of. Thanks so much for your help. Yossi's such a great kid, and I'm sure we can find a way to help him feel more confident.

Before a teacher or rebbe picks up the phone, she/he must have a clear goal for the call. Calling to simply "inform" is often a misnomer for calling to vent or complain. The teacher/rebbe needs to (1) give a specific example of the problematic behavior; (2) make at least one suggestion to improve the situation; and (3) explicitly state what the parent should do next -- even if it's just, "Let's talk in a week or two."

Now, given the fact that the teacher did not have me as her supervisor and therefore never learned this, what to do?

I would call the principal and make an appointment. At the meeting, I would explain that there are two problems concerning you. First, do either the teacher or the principal have any practical suggestions of how to help your child "work on" this problem? Real, specific actions -- not nebulous concepts. Second, explain your concern and frustration with the teacher's lack of professionalism. Explain that you very much want to be a supportive parent, but that you cannot support simply venting about a child's problems. The teacher needs to think through a suggestion or two or ask for your help in implementing a plan. That is her job, and allegedly, her area of expertise.

Now, the principal is likely to be a bit defensive, so you'll need to be as non-confrontational as possible. He/she will probably mouth all kinds of platitudes about "just keeping parents informed." Don't fall for it. Explain that the teacher called you with a very specific concern, but that she seemed to have no ideas of her own regarding how to help you child. She only said that he needs to "work on" being clingy and dependent, and this is not really a plan for improvement. Suggest that perhaps the principal and teacher put their heads together, come up with some ideas, and you'll be happy to discuss them and offer your support in any way needed.

End the meeting by setting a time for the next phone call -- probably in a few days. If you don't hear from the principal or the teacher at that time, call each of them to remind them that you are awaiting their suggestions. If you think of any ideas of your own, be sure to call, email, or fax them in the interim.

It breaks my heart that parents are treated like this. Unfortunately, it seems to be part of a trend in education: "Give us a smart, mature, self-disciplined, docile child -- and we'll be happy to teach him/her." Well, thanks ever so! What a fabulous educational system that is so successful with kids who were virtually perfect in the first place!

Being a teacher requires more than creating great lesson plans and keeping students on task while preventing as much mayhem as possible. It means being a problem-solver -- cognitive problems, behavioral problems, social problems, forgotten lunch problems. While identifying problems is always the first step toward solving them, it is not enough for a teacher to simply identify a problem, make a phone call, and then dump it in someone else's lap, as if it were dry-cleaning that could be picked up later in the week. If professionals in chinuch feel that parents don't adequately support their efforts, perhaps they should reflect on whether the popular approach to problems of "dump and run" really deserves any support.

Isramom8 ↓

Sun, Nov 01 2009, 2:05 am

So what, Fox? That's the way it is. You're asking more of teachers than they can/will do. OP needs to know if she should wait this out, or get her child evaluated for Asperger's or ADD. And no one can know the "right' answer. She could test now, or wait and see if it's still a problem as the year continues.

↑ Fox ↓

Sun, Nov 01 2009, 3:31 am

Isramom8 wrote:

Did you read the final part of my post? If the teacher had a recommendation, why didn't she make it? Obviously, the OP is going to have to follow up to figure out what on earth the point of this phone call was. Expensive, complex psychological testing should not be used as the first response to any and every problem. You try less dramatic approaches first; only if they fail and a body of evidence emerges that warrants testing do you proceed for evaluation.

As for "You're asking more of teachers than they can/will do." Yes. I'm asking them to do the job, and many teachers are unable and a few are actually unwilling to do the job. I taught for almost 18 years, so I'm not suggesting anything that I didn't do personally every day. Do you truly believe that asking a teacher to make a single suggestion to solve a problem or help a child improve is asking too much?

The teacher who trained me (initially observing my classroom 6 hours a week and meeting with me every day to review what occurred in class, gradually tapering to fewer observations and meetings) said something that has stuck with me: "If people knew better, they would do better."

Now, of course, this isn't literally true. It sure isn't true about me and eating habits! But does anyone really believe that the OP's son's teacher woke up and said, "I'm gonna do as sloppy and half-baked job as possible today"? No, she probably was told, "Make sure parents know if there's a problem in class." But she didn't really understand how to put that into practice. Were her principal working with her regularly, he/she would have guided her and even role-played the conversation with her.

Nobody goes into education to make a quick buck. Most teachers -- even the less-than-gifted ones -- want to do a good job, and most can be trained to do a decent job. But we have allowed our schools to develop some really bad habits in how they hire, train, and support teachers. Teaching teachers is not necessarily difficult, but it requires a commitment on the part of the school to prevent the "good enough for government work" mentality from taking root and provide a little cheerleading to help teachers internalize the truism that you can always become a better teacher tomorrow than you were today.

↑ amother ↓

Sun, Nov 01 2009, 3:48 am

I agree with Fox here. I also wonder sometimes about teachers. They don't deliberately try to do a bad job, but their attitude to problem solving sometimes leaves much to be desired.

As I posted on another thread, I have an dd who has mild ADD that is starting to get a bit worse as she grows. (She's nine.) In my case, the teachers don't only tell me she has a problem, but they are trying to pressure me into sending her to a remedial day center for four days a week, meaning that I wouldn't see her till 6 p.m. each time. If I worked out of the house and therefore wasn't home, this idea would be useful. But as they know that I'm home for her every day, the implication is that either I'm a bad parent or that she's ch'v so dysfunctional that she can't possibly be home during the day. All of this is patently untrue. Rather than making the simple (and obvious) suggestion that her dosage of Ritalin should be checked and that maybe some occupational therapy might come in useful, they swoop in with an over the top and radical suggestion that I personally think wouldn't solve her immediate problems anyway.

I'm not trying to hijack the OP's thread to talk about my problems, but to say that I think many teachers have this idea that if there's a problem, it sometimes has to be blown out of all proportion. Or not give any concrete suggestions at all.

Good luck to the original poster. In my opinion, watch the situation. See how your child acts at home or with other kids. Perhaps it's just a phase. Is something bothering him and making him feel insecure and more clingy, like the birth or impending birth of a new sibling, a sick grandparent, etc? OTOH, if not and it doesn't go away or gets worse, then you might have to visit a child therapist for some ideas, like ADD or something else. But even if you do end up doing that, don't feel that it reflects on you necessarily. Many kids from warm, functional homes have ADD. It's a neurological problem in many cases (unless caused by trauma, but that's a different story), and you need to learn how to deal with this child as such kids are different. It doesn't make you a bad parent, ch'v. So don't feel guilty. Just be constructive and do everything you can for your ds.

↑ Isramom8 ↓

Sun, Nov 01 2009, 8:03 am

Reality has it that teachers have to manage with too many students and a curriculum to get through, which leaves little time for dealing with the 'whole child'.
I doubt this is just in Israel.

Ours is an 'age of diagnosis'
where once a problem is suspected, there will be overtesting and overtherapy. It's a time in history where kids will be sent to a remedial center till 6 p.m. even if the mother is home ad functional, because assumedly the 'professional' atmosphere will benefit the child more.

OP, I think kids are BORN with ADD, Asperger's or whatever - you cannot "give" these to your child! Also, many parents are sent to therapy to learn skills to deal with the situation that will help the child. It doesn't mean they think you're dysfunctional. it's the thing to do.

Behatzlacha.

↑ amother ↓

Sun, Nov 01 2009, 8:42 am

ok I read on what aspergers is, and my son is no where near that at all. as far as add I have to think about it.
Here ill give you an idea of what my son is like. He is very very smart and im not just saying that cause im his mother. he is very social, and out going, he is also very sensetive, and tends to exaggerate his emotions, in other words if he is upset about something he will say it but then he will also have these dramatics. he is also very lovey, that is he likes to hug people he likes, and he absoluetly loves this teacher, so he likes to hug her, because in his mind thats how he shows his affection to her. When I heard it I thought hey thats wonderful that he likes his teacher, I thought its cute and ive spoken to her before and she never said it was a problem. But I did tell him that perhaps he shouldnt hug her too much as it is not appropriate. Also what bothers me is how much control do I really have with his behavior in school??? I can help him at home, we can talk about, we can figure out how he should behave in school, but when he gets to school during the day a million things can set him off, and the teacher should deal with it, in the moment, not me when the moment has passed. does that make sense?? all I can do is either talk to him or retairate what the teacher said. Once the moment passed I doubt most kids care anymore, cause they moved on, so what am I supposed to do? Furthermore, my son is loved by everyone who meets him, he is a very sweet, funny, lovable little guy, older kids adore him and all teachers like him so its not like he is a problem.
Frankly, after the conversation with her I was very confused as to what the perpouse was, what did she want me to do? And I think I asked her, but the only thing she said talk to him, and in my mind im thinking about what??? and this wasnt a phone call this wa son a friday when I picked him up from school. When he was in kindergarten, his used to sit with his teacher in the morning when she had her coffee and talk to her, she loved it, the thought it was the cutest thing. He likes adults he tends to get along with adults better then with kids his age, he gets along with kids who are older, and adults. its not to say he doesnt get alont with kids his age he does but as much as with other kids. so the kindergarten teacher realized that he needed some time in the morning to spend with her one on one, because he needed that attention so she gave it to him, and she never had a problem with it. in her view it was because he is an only child and got used to me being with him so he needs that "mommy" time or something. anyways, we are going to therapy to deal with all this, and figure it all out.
I mean if its an issue then I have to fix it and help him in some way. thing is I dont understand what the issue really is? is that he is too emotional, or is it that he needs attention. what I dont understand is if all kids go through this, then what does she want from me? she said that my son doesnt know boundries? what does that mean? what boundries? does she mean in terms of hugging her? she said all kids do it. does she mean he talks sometimes during circle time? she said kids do it. I should think there are kids who talk during circle time or class time at any grade, there are kids who do that. I asked her is something like a big probelm she said know, that my son is good with the why questions so if we talk to him and explain to him that he cant talk during certain times or that he needs to know he is not the only one in the world and with repatition he will learn, but then she goes on to say that all kids at this point feel like they are the only ones in the world. THEN WHAT IN GODS NAME AM I SUPPOSED TO DO??? I dont understand what I am supposed to take care of?? and ive asked to come watch him class so I can see what issue is, but no you cant. so how am I supposed to "fix" it if I cant do anything?
im sorry its long, but I am just so so frustrated, I get told this, but no one seems to tell me anything concrete? meanwhile in my mind im thinking kids go through a million things, during school, and in some way to me its normal. every day when I pick him up I ask his other teacher the english one how he is doing she says oh he is fine! so I dont get it!!!! how much more talking can I do already? I talk to my son every day, we discuss his behavior good and bad every day. he understands things, I just feel like all this talking is stifling him and all this proper behavior is too, he doesnt have time to be just A KID. all these insane expectations of behave behave behave, listen listen listen. and the kindergardent teacher did not suggest testing for ADD because she said its not that all, he is far from it.
I think in my opinion is that my son "high maintnance" and people cant seem to deal with it, so therapy is something we are looking into. because I am tired of this already.

↑ Isramom8 ↓

Sun, Nov 01 2009, 8:50 am

So he sounds maybe (I CANNOT diagnose!) just emotional and demonstrative, and needs to learn what is socially acceptable. Either at home through you, or by attending a social skills group. Mabe there are books that deal with this - I'd check www.amazon.com.

He could out grow it. Do you suspect that when he is 9 or 10 he will still hug the teacher and need to be the center of attention?

Meanwhile, can you teach him things like, "shake hands" or "smile big, look her in the eye and say good morning!" instead of hugging; and listening to the conversation of the group before entering it casually, etc?

↑ amother ↓

Sun, Nov 01 2009, 8:59 am

Isramom, yes thats the conversation I had with him on friday. I told him I understand that you love this teacher and I think its wonderful but perhaps it would be best if instead of hugging her you would simply tell her hi, or I think your a cool teacher etc. I told him that there are other children in class who need her attention and if she always gives it to you other kids might get upset etc. So he said ok, I am going to try to do that. I am also a worrier, I worry too much about things, and when she said he doesnt know boundries it scared the life out of me, in my mind im thinking ok he has no boundries then what does that say about me as a parent and does that mean he will grow up not knowing how to control himself???? im scared a bit.
and no I highly doubt that when he is 9 or 10 in fact I even doubt that when he will be in 2nd grade that he will do this. The way I view his behavior is somethng that will change over time, but its something that I have to help him with. I dont know im just tired, tired , tired. Thanks for the help though I appreciate it!!

↑ Isramom8 ↓

Sun, Nov 01 2009, 9:03 am

You sound to me like you understand boundaries, so take the teacher's comment with a grain of salt. It's a manner of speaking about a child's immaturity. It doesn't mean NO BOUNDARIES as in a future killer or rapist or drug addict.

↑ amother

Sun, Nov 01 2009, 9:07 am

I guess your right, im just wondering if he simply understand it, or does he internalize it? or is he too young to internalize? because its one thing to understand when someone is saying something its another to internalize what something is saying to you and get it deeper then just oh I understand. There is a difference isnt there? I guess thats what worries me in some ways, but maybe im wrong.

imasinger

Sun, Nov 01 2009, 9:09 am

It might be sensible to go back to the teacher, arrange a longer meeting, and ask her what suggestions she has for dealing with the problem that she has identified. What would she like from you as a parent? What is she doing to handle the situation as a teacher?

I have learned not to be afraid of diagnosticians; they are there to help, and if they don't see a problem, they tell you so. Even once a kid may have a diagnosis, there are many ideas of what might be the best treatment -- diet, therapy, training, medication... Figuring out what's best is a puzzle that doesn't stop once there's a name attached.

You might want to learn more about sensory integration issues, as you are researching.

↑ Isramom8

Sun, Nov 01 2009, 9:10 am

Also, teach it over and over, give it time, and role play.

↑ Fox

Sun, Nov 01 2009, 11:24 am

This really doesn't sound like anything in need of "diagnosis." It sounds like the "boundaries" have been changed without his realizing it. He went from a very warm, affectionate teacher last year to a more formal teacher this year. Just like someone starting a new job, he has to get used to new expectations and behavioral norms.

I still suggest following up with the principal and the teacher. The information you received from the teacher, as you noted, was entirely to vague to be useful. You don't want this to turn into a habit with her. In the meantime, talk with your son frequently when he's relaxed and receptive about differences between last year and this year, and keep guiding him in selecting appropriate behaviors.

I would also get away from the "boundaries" idea. Frankly, this sounds like a word the teacher picked up somewhere without completely understanding what it means in a clinical sense.

gold21

Sun, Nov 01 2009, 11:30 am

I definitely think that teachers can sometimes over-exaggerate issues. I think that since this is OP's first child, it is hard to swallow negative feedback from a teacher, since the first time you experience something, it is more intense. but you should realize that Teacher isnt G-d, shes just offering her view on a situation, and her view could be right or wrong. thats not to say you should ignore her comments, but rather dont let yourself get too freaked out over this. definitely try to do some research. sensory integration issues are something to consider, as someone already mentioned. but nothing is for sure, this could be just a phase in your childs life.

Health is a Virture

Thu, Nov 05 2009, 6:29 am

your son will one day make a very fine husband, a boy who is caring and sensitive. For now, love him, give him lots and lots of love and touch. Some children need to be taught what for others is natural. I am sure somewhere out there there is some kind of therapist who can help your son find the proper boundaries that he needs, and in the meantime make sure you give him a whole lot of extra touch and attention because that is what he obviously NEEDS. Good luck!