I’m that broke…

amother

Mon, Apr 08 2024, 11:46 am

lamplighter wrote:

First of all hugs! Going to a store ad realizing that you cannot afford food is really hard. Im impressed by your fortitude around this. It is very hard to be different than your peers. I feel so sorry because it is hard to go from a wealthy lifestyle to a kollel lifestyle and that is the sacrifice. A kollel lifestyle isn't a free ride it's a sacrifice for Torah learning. Perhaps you can reframe your limitations with this zechus in mind.
Are there people who are living simply that you can spend more time with?
Stopping with the credit card is so impressive. Really wow. It's easy to just use it, same with savings. You can do this. Now what you need to do is have a very clear cut budget.
Answer honestly does your income cover your expenses? If it does not then you are going to just be running in circles again and again.
I don't think shabbos and rosh Chodesh expenses are supposed to be without any calculations, I think you reasonably spend more on those days to honor them. It's not an excuse for overspending. You can honor shabbos with a nice dessert or meat and rosh Chodesh with a coffee date.
If everything adds except shabbos and Yom tov get hadracha on what exactly is expected of you spending wise in this stage of life thats also in line with chazal.
If you are brave enough to post numbers maybe I can help?

Thank you so much for your response.
I am sitting here sobbing as I read it, I don’t know why but it really means a lot.

I don’t feel comfortable posting numbers.
We are meeting with our rav to discuss our spending in regards to shabbos and tzedaka this week, and to see how we should be moving forward.

My husband has a much higher level of bitachon than I do, and that’s causing some issues in shalom bayis as well. Everything he does and says is discussed many times with rebeim and rabanim. I’m just not on the same level as him.
We never argued before until a few months ago when things were getting tight and he keeps being so generous with everything. Now we can’t bring up finances without me bursting into tears and needing to leave the room.

Hopefully when we meet with the rav, we’ll get some hadracha on how we should be spending our money on mitzvos.

amother

Mon, Apr 08 2024, 11:48 am

watergirl wrote:

I am in no way judging. I am not part of the yeshiva world and like I said, I was sending support. I was asking kindly if this is something to consider. You said you are both very committed, so all I can do is send my heartfelt bracha to both of you.

Chayalle is my favorite kollel life member on this forum, I hope she sees this thread. If not, consider reaching out to her via pm. She supported her husband in kollel for many years on her own and she is the first person I would ask for ideas.

Re: lettuce and other costly things, and again I do not live in Israel, but what I do to cut back is to buy the kind of lettuce and veg that I have to check myself. It saves a lot of money.

I have been there financially. We were in a place for a few years where I'd buy one drumstick per person for shabbos dinner and two slices of bologna per person for shabbos lunch. I TOTALLY understand looking for places to cut back.

Thank you. I didn’t think you were judging. I guess I was just scared of other posters seeing that and responding with judgement.
Thank you for your kind words!

amother

Cyan

Mon, Apr 08 2024, 11:48 am

amother Lemonlime wrote:

It might be what you are used to. Going out to eat is so far from being a necessity. Maybe start talking to/hanging around people who grew up with less so you can understand where to budget?

If you want to enjoy yourselves after a long zman, a budget friendly idea would be to take the kids and go for a nice long stroll/shmooze in a beautiful park or other walking area. Buy a Danish, a coffee or even just a small juice, and just relax and enjoy.

Is there a way you can raise your income? What do you do for a living?

I'm sorry for the sad feelings. It's truly hard when you miss out. Chin up, and try to adjust. You have the opportunity now to make a slight but valuable mental shift.

Adding that it's truly a crime for young kollel couples to be living the "high life". It causes so many problems. Stay away from those people, and find better, more real friends.

It is absolutely no one's business what anyone else spends.
I'd stay far away from YOU if I was able to.
Don't like people that judge other people and decide what they should do and how they should spend.

amother

Amber

Mon, Apr 08 2024, 11:50 am

amother OP wrote:

[quote="As an aside where are rosh chodesh expenses paid from??

Meaning they are free, Hashem takes care of them. Like Shabbos expenses. They fall under the same category. Whatever you spend to make it special is free according to many opinions. But ai just can’t have that bitachon right now, when we have no money.

Where does it say that about rosh chodesh?

And that spending on shobbos is "free" the way some people on imamother write about it......

Why then the jokes about yerushalmi shobbos seudos being zemiros? Or have you read the biographies about rav chaim and the steipler about what they ate in the early days when they had no money? Do they have less bitachon?

Have any of you sat down with a real posek and asked how to approach this?

amother

Mon, Apr 08 2024, 11:52 am

Iymnok wrote:

It's illegal to not have prices on, or by items in Israel. They still do.
If you go to osher ad or shaareo revacha, they have those scanners for self checkout. Use them to scan everything before you put it in the cart. Price compare. Pay attention to package sizes.

I really should just go to osher ad/shaare revacha only, but I don’t have any near my neighborhood and it’s just so so hard to get there and shlep everything back on a longgg bus ride. But I should. I just don’t know if I have the ability. (I am in my first trimester and extremely nauseas and weak always).

Is it illegal?? Then how do they all get away with it?!

amother

Mon, Apr 08 2024, 11:53 am

amother Amber wrote:

We have sat down with poskim multiple times to discuss exactly this. And they all agree with my husband that this kind of spending can be done. There are all different reasons why the gedolim didnt (they werent interested in the fancier foods that we know about, and other reasons etc).

However, we will be sitting down with our rav again this week to clarify further.

amother

Cyan

Mon, Apr 08 2024, 11:55 am

amother Amber wrote:

According to my Rav Shabbos expenses are completely paid back as long as it's within the range of what you would spend if you had the money.
Meaning if you had the money for steaks and would buy them for shabbos (obviously you'd be paid back too but) then if you don't have the money for steaks and buy for shabbos you'd be paid back.

But he says that money for Rosh Chodesh doesn't fall into the same category. He says it's nice to honor Rosh Chodesh with something special, but I personally don't count on getting paid back for it. I do buy something nice for Rosh Chodesh but I count that as part of my budget.

amother

Lemonlime

Mon, Apr 08 2024, 12:00 pm

amother Cyan wrote:

What did you think would happen when you wrote it was a crime?
If you don't want to hijack the post you can delete your agenda from your response.

Unfortunately, you, an anonymous poster on an anonymous site, seem to have decided to make a personal attack on me, another anonymous poster on this anonymous site, based solely on a general opinion which I expressed.
I assume you're young and probably having a hard day. But please, think before you post. We're all entitled to our opinions, and there is a way to respectfully disagree.

amother

Hyacinth

Mon, Apr 08 2024, 12:01 pm

This probably won’t help but I’ve been there without the $7000 in the bank. I’ve been there with a negative bank account. And it’s hard when that happens. It’s hard to see other people spending on things when you can’t afford basics.
You will have to buy cucumbers instead of lettuce in the future.
When I was in that matzav I stopped buying yogurt, cottage cheese, juice , individual snack bags…. We ate a lot of pasta, tuna, milk, eggs, bread and chicken on shabbos. I baked cake instead of buying cake and cookies.
We never went out to eat. Never.
But we went to parks and for walks.
I think the hardest part is seeing others living what seems like carefree. If you know that other people are in the same situation then it makes it doable. Because you’re not starving and you’re not homeless bH. You just have to be very careful now. And that’s ok. It really is. It’s not okay if you can’t buy food ever. It’s not okay if you are facing eviction.
I hope your husbands kollel will send you something for Yom Tov.
And I hope you enjoy Rosh Chodesh in a nice creative way this month.
And please know that there really are people in the same situation. You might be hanging out with a wealthier crowd but there really are kollel people out there who think twice before they purchase something.
I think feeling alone is worse than not being able to spend.

amother

Mon, Apr 08 2024, 12:10 pm

amother Hyacinth wrote:

I really appreciate this post. Thank you.
I do like some Of your tips (no yogurt, juice, snack bags…) because I come from a background where I dont even know HOW to cut back on food. I wouldnt even know what to cut back on.

Any other tips for how you cut back would be very appreciated!!

amother

Cyan

Mon, Apr 08 2024, 12:12 pm

amother Lemonlime wrote:

I'm sorry. You attacked me, a kollel wife, and told the world that it's a crime to spend my LARGE salary on luxuries because you decided that even though I earn close to $200k/year which is more than many two working parent households make combined. But since my husband is in kollel you decided to be the judge and jury on that.

I'll be DLKZ here that you don't know what you're talking about at all and just jumped on the rhetoric of this site thinking that you'd get likes for it...
Let's pretend you never said that and move on:)

Dolly Welsh

Mon, Apr 08 2024, 12:25 pm

Just BT here, but in ignorance I remark your hubby should NOT go giving, or doing anything at all financial. Let you do all that, with no complaining from him at all. Let him merely do his own job, studying. He has plenty to do.

You should not be discussing money at all with your dh. That should be your province entirely.

Men adore to look good. And good-hearted men, even more so. Your dh means well.

He thinks it all falls from heaven. Well it does. Into YOUR hands. Not his.

Let him not say one word about 'we should go out tonight.' YOU say, OH! We are having ice cream for Rosh Chodesh! We are marking the day.

YOU are the one with the sense here. And that is quite proper.

He is in Kollel for a REASON. If he were a practical type, he would be in business.

Lots of hugs from here. And stay away from lettuce. It needs to be checked a lot, so it's expensive. High labor cost. Find another green leaf thing to substitute for it. Lettuce doesn't have that many vitamins anyway.

You will nail this, with some practice. In time, you will be out of debt.

Our ancestress Chava should have said NO.

We, however, have learned different. WE CAN say NO.

This is actually ASSIGNED to us to correct what she did just in my humble BT opinion.

Hugs and hugs.

Last edited by Dolly Welsh on Mon, Apr 08 2024, 12:28 pm; edited 1 time in total

lamplighter

Mon, Apr 08 2024, 12:27 pm

OP since you are in Israel I can't help you with practical tips for cutting down specific groceries. Please post separately asking for ideas. People love to share advice.
General grocery budgeting tips that work for me:
-shop sales and base menu on the sales
- go to the store with a list that is based on your menu for the week.
- go to the store as infrequently as possible
- once a month don't go to the store at all and shop from your pantry ie use up what you have.
- the person who is more frugal should do the shopping.

Sorry if this is out of line but I think it's very important to speak to the Rav with your husband and to be honest about your feelings, your sholom bayis, your desire to stick with this lifestyle long term but struggling financially. Please do not cover up what's really going on and leaving it to be considered a spiritual matter. There is a bigger picture here and it would make a huge difference for you if you show the Rav the whole thing.