Don't do this to a potential host please

amother

Chestnut

Mon, Nov 27 2023, 3:19 pm

amother Papayawhip wrote:

I agree with OP wholeheartedly. Unless someone went away last minute and is in a bind, people can plan and stock their own freezer ahead of time so they don’t need to put their vacation hardship on someone else. It’s hard to say no when put in the spot. Be ur friends guest when ur friend feels like inviting you. Not when u are too lazy to make your own Shabbos.
I feel the same way about meals after a baby. I’m happy to make a meal for someone but I honestly don’t understand why people don’t stock up their freezer before giving birth. Most people have nine months notice. It’s not so complicated to take a pan out of your freezer and stick into the oven. IMVHO

I personally feel much worse in pregnancy than post birth. Yes you might have 9 months notice, but if you're constantly throwing up, feeling generally lousy and the smell of food is making it worse, plus your belly means you can't reach the counter, it isn't as easy as you make it sound.

amother

Mon, Nov 27 2023, 3:30 pm

amother Papayawhip wrote:

I hear you, but I disagree re: pregnancy, and this thread is not conflating mealtrains after a baby with inviting yourself to someone else post vacation. But since you brought it up - I and many others don't have an extra freezer for meals after a baby.

Chayalle

Mon, Nov 27 2023, 3:32 pm

I think it depends. I say this as someone who never goes away - big homebodies here, and small budget, so most we do is day trips. But I have family that likes to travel. And if it works for me I don't mind being their vacation after vacation.

I mean, they come home exhausted, with tons of laundry to wash, often on a different time clock, so it's nice to be able to crash at your big sister, for example, rather than make Shabbos. And I'm fine with hosting her cuz one hand washes the other. I don't need her to host me post vacation, but she did invite me for YT meals the week before DD's wedding, and it was really nice and helpful. She's been a big sister to DD, and when I need things hung or fixed in my house, her DH, who is handy unlike us, hops over with his drill.

So I think it depends if there's a give and take relationship there, and not just a take, you're available and I need, so host me attitude.

zaq

Mon, Nov 27 2023, 3:43 pm

Busybee5 wrote:

K the after birth thing I don't really agree with. Not everyone can manage to stock their freezer ahead of time. If there's a yom tov in between, cooking for a large family etc. Personally I don't make supper for my friends who have big families anymore. I'll send in a big kugel, and a cake or something but not a while shabbos meal, or supper. It's too much already at our stage, and she doesn't expect it.

Not to mention that not everyone has a freezer. (I still don't.) When my kids were born I had the top compartment of a fridge--and not a very large fridge, at that. No way I could have frozen entire meals in advance.

amother

Impatiens

Mon, Nov 27 2023, 3:51 pm

amother Papayawhip wrote:

If you’re working full time (or nearly), and have other young kids, and not feeling well before birth, etc—it can be very difficult to stock a freezer beforehand. That was the case for me, anyway.
On the other hand, iirc I didn’t find it such a big deal to cook after birth; I finally had some time off, felt practically like vacation!

amother

Buttercup

Mon, Nov 27 2023, 3:58 pm

amother OP wrote:

This is really what I was getting at I think. I don't understand the mentality of adults who would put someone on the spot and in an uncomfortable position. You have enough money to go away? Great! Take some money and order takeout.

In general I don't understand why healthy people with no other issues would invite themselves to someone else. I'm not talking about a single person, I'm talking about a couple.

I totally agree, it seems like these people are taking advantage of you. If you invite them, that is on you, but for people to invite themselves for meals - unless it is an emergency, it is very tacky. It sounds like they may just be socially off / immature. Even (most of) my single friends dont invite themselves, & unless I call them & ask what they are doing for shabbos, its very unusual for them to invite themselves. I you have an open door policy, you will need to set firm boundaries so you dont get taken advantage of.

amother

Outerspace

Mon, Nov 27 2023, 4:06 pm

Are you jealous of their vacation or feel used because it is a one sided relationship/invitation ? Do they invite you for meals?

I have a friend who doesn’t usually invite herself to me. Technically I usually invite her, but we have a mutual understanding that whenever she goes away she comes to me either the Shabbos before (if she is flying out Motzi Shabbos or Sunday morning) or the Shabbos after-sometimes both. Her FIL is elderly and not well, and she and DH need to go and tend to him. I am happy to help alleviate some of her burden. But the understanding applies to vacation as well. She has me just as often. She will sometimes notice when we are speaking that I have a particularly large amount on my plate that week and she will invite or I will even ask if I have way too much going on. She may ask me, or I may ask her. She may invite or I may invite. One may ask and the other may apologize that it’s really not a good week. We are good friends and try to help each other to carry the burden. It is mutual.
NOTED that this also extends to simchas, vacations and everything in-between. She is a good friend and we are both more than happy to help each other. It goes both ways to the point we fall over ourselves to help each other. Her DD will YIH get engaged soon and there is no question that I will have them for a Shabbos meal while she is “recuperating” from the lichayim. She doesn’t need to ask. Because I will invite without needing to be asked-test she would complete say, that a for your Friday night invite, but we want to just have soup and crash. Can we come for lunch. And that is fine. My point is, it all depends on your relationship.

amother

Wallflower

Mon, Nov 27 2023, 5:55 pm

amother OP wrote:

In general I don't understand why healthy people with no other issues would invite themselves to someone else. I'm not talking about a single person, I'm talking about a couple.

Because they were used to doing this as singles and now feel entitled to continue doing so. Their parents never taught them that inviting oneself=putting the would-be host on the spot=rudeness. I also blame the yeshivot and seminaries that do not arrange for Shabbat meals, thus forcing students to invite themselves to people or spend Shabbat eating peanut butter and crackers in their rooms.

amother

DarkCyan

Mon, Nov 27 2023, 6:28 pm

amother OP wrote:

I know! Same! She is the type to have shabbos cooked by Thursday night so I can see why she'd be stressed. But 1) she did it to herself when she planned this vacation and 2)she can STILL cook on Friday. Like I do.

So I can see how to her, coming home at 6pm on Thursday feels like it's literally right before shabbos, but it's still more than enough time. It feels misleading to me. Whatever.

It wouldn't bother me to host someone if they went away, even if I couldn't afford a holiday. If they hadn't asked me to host them I still couldn't afford a holiday so why miss out on company as well? I presume that if they're inviting themselves you must have a pretty good relationship..

That said, if someone invited themselves even for a very good reason and I couldn't host I would say no.

The 'why' doesn't matter it, depends if I can manage or not.

Ruchi

Mon, Nov 27 2023, 11:35 pm

If hosting comes with resentment, then it shouldn't be done. A mitzvah should be done with a happy and good will..
Some might argue that hosting in the scenario explained by the OP, is not exactly a mitzvah. However, if you can't host with a good feeling then it's better to decline the self invite.

Of course people can cook in advance or buy take-out, and plenty do this.
However there are those who prefer not to serve, clear-up, wash-up etc and just have it easy.
They want the "Shabbos off" either the shabbos before travelling (if travelling Motzei or Sunday)or the Shabbos after, if coming back on a Thursday.

amother

Latte

Tue, Nov 28 2023, 12:04 am

amother OP wrote:

Don't plan a vacation and then try to extend it by asking someone to host you for shabbos meals so you don't have to come back from being away and have to cook your own shabbos meals.

I tend to host a lot, but usually the same bunch of people. There are a number of guests who invite themselves to my house for shabbos meals and I host if I can, decline if I can't.

What really bothers me is when people go away, then want to relax further so they ask me if I can host them for a meal or two. And then to make it worse, to take over the conversation at MY table and talk all about your trip. As if I want to hear about it. I don't.

We don't go away ever. We don't have the money to. So people know they can count on us to be home.

What I want to tell people who do this - when you come back from a trip all refreshed, even if your trip included hours in the car or plane, think of the friend like me who never gets a chance to go away, and invite them to you. Give them a break from cooking and cleaning and invite for a meal or two.

Please don't use people to extend your vacation.

I've asked, very rarely, to be hosted when getting back from vacation within 24 hours of Shabbos. It's hard to come home exhausted and maybe even jet lagged with mountains of laundry to do and no groceries in the house and BAM it's time to make shabbos. Sure, I could get take out. Sometimes we do. But it's also nice to spend time with friends and neighbors that we missed while away. I never feel badly asking. I'm not the type to ask favors often and I certainly do beyond my share of hosting others so I don't feel like I'm doing anything wrong. I'm sorry you feel so used and resentful. If it's too hard or unpleasant for you, just say no and move on.

amother

Tue, Nov 28 2023, 8:44 am

Ruchi wrote:

Of course people can cook in advance or buy take-out, and plenty do this.
However there are those who prefer not to serve, clear-up, wash-up etc and just have it easy.
They want the "Shabbos off" either the shabbos before travelling (if travelling Motzei or Sunday)or the Shabbos after, if coming back on a Thursday.

This is the entitlement I'm talking about. They prefer this after their vacation, on the back of the person they've put on the spot by asking for an invitation.

Maybe the people who were just away should offer to host the person they initially thought to invite themselves to.

The Goldbergs went away Sunday-Thursday. Their neighbors, the Cohens never go away. Leah Goldberg calls up Bracha Cohen and asks if they can come for a shabbos meal because they prefer not to serve, clear-up, wash-up etc. and just have it easy, and want the shabbos off before or after traveling. Bracha was caught off guard when Leah called her and agreed to host them. She honestly thought Leah was calling her to thank her for bringing in the mail and amazon packages and feeding the fish all week. No, Leah asked to bring her family for lunch because they prefer not to cook.

Leah was actually in a great position to tell Bracha: you helped me while I was away. You never get to go away and here I am, recharged from a vacation. We would love to host your family for a meal so you can have a taste of what we just had all week.

amother Latte wrote:

Please realize how on the spot you are putting people when you ask for an invitation. Maybe keep in mind the cost of making that first shabbos while you are planning your vacation. If you want to see the people you missed while you were away, invite them to you.

Instead of putting the onus on the person to "just say no if you are so resentful", which is really a rude way of turning the table on the person who you are putting on the spot and also rubbing in the fact that you are oh so tired after your week away, consider that you are asking a real person with real feelings. So many people are so taken off guard when asked to host them, it's not until later when they realize what just happened.

Don't put the onus onto the person who you are asking to do something for you. The onus belongs on yourself. Think before you ask and then think again.