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Forum
-> Working Women
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amother
OP
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 Tue, Aug 08 2023, 2:35 pm
I've been working from home for over 12 years. 6 years at my current job. I work in my snood and slinky skirt and without makeup. During long boring meetings that are required that I attend, but more so as a formality (aka "babysitting" other employees), I sometimes fold laundry while I listen etc. I probably turn on my camera once every 3 months or so, but only if there's a valid reason and it's convenient for me to get nicely dressed, makeup and shaitel on. I've had frum bosses up until about 18 months ago when there was a management shift, and I landed up with a non Jewish manager who is completely clueless about yiddishkeit. I don't think she even knew what kosher was, and her knowledge is still very limited. My frum boss never ever asked me to turn on my camera, and I don't think I ever did with him. Honestly, to me it's not even tzniyus for a one-on-one with a frum man. I've been to the office every few months, so he knows what I look like lol. I know this female manager likes when I have my camera on, so once in a blue during a one-on-one check in with her, I'll do the clothes, makeup, shaitel prep so I can turn on my camera. In the past 2 weeks she started dropping hints, that she wants me to turn on camera during (all?) meetings. I'm not pleased. I feel like I'm losing a lot of freedom and work will be much more pressured and less enjoyable. I can't even explain to her about snoods... I have a few years seniority over her, but turned down the offer of her position, as I like my flexibility and not looking to increase my hours and/or responsibilities.
Looking for a good way to get out of this... I need my freedom. In addition, I'll eventually soon be working from home with a baby, which will make it even harder to have the camera on. I don't want to set a precedent now, that I will need to keep to after returning from maternity leave.
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amother
White
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Tue, Aug 08 2023, 2:49 pm
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Unfortunately it is standard to expect employees to turn on cameras during meetings, both because it’s awkward talking to a blank screen, and because they don’t want you multitasking. They’d probably rather you show up in a tichel without makeup then keep your screen off
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amother
Dill
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Tue, Aug 08 2023, 2:53 pm
| amother White wrote: | | Unfortunately it is standard to expect employees to turn on cameras during meetings, both because it’s awkward talking to a blank screen, and because they don’t want you multitasking. They’d probably rather you show up in a tichel without makeup then keep your screen off |
This.
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DrMom
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Tue, Aug 08 2023, 2:54 pm
Can you schedule your meetings so they are clustered together so you don't have to get very dressed up so frequently?
I agree that it is common courtesy to turn on your camera during meetings, esp 1:1 meetings.
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Highstrung
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Tue, Aug 08 2023, 2:55 pm
I run to put my sheitel on 10 minutes before a meeting and then yank it off the moment it’s over . Unless I have back to back meetings.
I work during meetings and need to concentrate and can’t do other things anyway , so other than my sheitel zoom on camera doesn’t affect me at all.
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Ema of 5
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Tue, Aug 08 2023, 2:59 pm
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You were very lucky that it was not required until now. I do see where the new boss is coming from though. How does she know you are focused on her? It’s nice that you’ve been able to do other things until now, but really you are on her (or the company’s) dime, and it really isn’t right. I don’t think it’s wrong of her to want to see you during a one on one meeting, or even during a team or other group meeting.
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amother
Snowdrop
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Tue, Aug 08 2023, 2:59 pm
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How many meetings do you have anyway? One a day? 2 a day? Their request is absolutely the norm and frankly it’s poor etiquette not to comply
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amother
OP
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Tue, Aug 08 2023, 3:02 pm
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My manager has implied many times that she just needs me to attend these meetings as a "babysitter". These meetings are often working sessions for other employees that last 90+ minutes. Also, in 6 years no one ever had a problem, and now she gets to change the rules on me? Do I have any recourse? Productivity isn't a problem. She's said many times that I accomplish more in an hour than others do in a day/week. They are thrilled with my performance. I feel like before COVID, no one dreamed of having their cameras on... Ugh.
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Ema of 5
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Tue, Aug 08 2023, 3:03 pm
| amother OP wrote: | | My manager has implied many times that she just needs me to attend these meetings as a "babysitter". These meetings are often working sessions for other employees that last 90+ minutes. Also, in 6 years no one ever had a problem, and now she gets to change the rules on me? Do I have any recourse? Productivity isn't a problem. She's said many times that I accomplish more in an hour than others do in a day/week. They are thrilled with my performance. I feel like before COVID, no one dreamed of having their cameras on... Ugh. |
She is the boss, if this is what she wants…..I really don’t think it’s unreasonable. Are you upset because it’s unreasonable, or because it will mean losing out on being able to do what you’ve done previously?
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amother
Hydrangea
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Tue, Aug 08 2023, 3:04 pm
You should renegotiate so you don’t need to be at these meetings. And whatever (few) meetings you’re at, have the camera on.
Surely they can find someone else to babysit.
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amother
Hydrangea
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Tue, Aug 08 2023, 3:05 pm
| amother OP wrote: | | These meetings are often working sessions for other employees that last 90+ minutes. | Are these coworking sessions? If so it makes sense she would want the camera on. I think this is a good opportunity to renegotiate your responsibilities.
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amother
OP
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Tue, Aug 08 2023, 3:07 pm
| amother Snowdrop wrote: | | How many meetings do you have anyway? One a day? 2 a day? Their request is absolutely the norm and frankly it’s poor etiquette not to comply |
At least 2 a day, often at least 2.5-3 hours worth. I'm also expected to do other work (non-meeting related) during the calls as things come up (be on call). I only do non-work related multi-tasking when everything work related is accomplished and I'm literally babysitting colleagues + being on call for other stuff. I only need to listen with half an ear. No one is disputing that piece of it. Personally I've seen my boss talking on her cellphone (muted) during calls like this and I happen to think that it's worse than having your camera off...
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amother
Burgundy
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Tue, Aug 08 2023, 3:11 pm
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Just FYI, you definitely don't need makeup for a zoom meeting unless you have a really good external webcam. Same with clothes, just adjust your camera a bit up. You do need a sheitel though....
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amother
Hydrangea
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Tue, Aug 08 2023, 3:13 pm
| amother Burgundy wrote: | | Just FYI, you definitely don't need makeup for a zoom meeting unless you have a really good external webcam. Same with clothes, just adjust your camera a bit up. You do need a sheitel though.... | You don’t need a sheitel either. I’ve been in lots of (secular) meetings and women wear all kinds of head garb (there are people from all over the globe). Brightly colored turbans, scarves etc. A snood would be less eye catching.
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amother
OP
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Tue, Aug 08 2023, 3:17 pm
I forgot to mention that the worst piece of this is my self consciousness. I am camera shy in general and hate people staring at me. I'm obese and don't need everyone analyzing me. It's extremely uncomfortable. I also fidget, put my hands on my face (propping) etc. I don't like everyone watching ever move I make!
Part of my responsibility is being project manager and making sure that our seasoned procrastinators actually show up to meetings and get stuff done. I hate this part of my job, but apparently that's what they need and I'm good (?) at it... (as well as my other responsibilities that I accomplish simultaneously).
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amother
Lightblue
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Tue, Aug 08 2023, 3:19 pm
Wow that’s very annoying. I work from home and love the ability to dress however comfortably I want. The baby will also be an issue going forward. I feel you!
How does your boss know if you turn your camera on or not during those meetings? Does she join them sometimes?
Maybe start sporadically putting your camera on. Not every meeting but once every few days. Might be enough to get her off your back.
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amother
Hydrangea
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Tue, Aug 08 2023, 3:24 pm
| amother OP wrote: | I forgot to mention that the worst piece of this is my self consciousness. I am camera shy in general and hate people staring at me. I'm obese and don't need everyone analyzing me. It's extremely uncomfortable. I also fidget, put my hands on my face (propping) etc. I don't like everyone watching ever move I make!
Part of my responsibility is being project manager and making sure that our seasoned procrastinators actually show up to meetings and get stuff done. I hate this part of my job, but apparently that's what they need and I'm good (?) at it... (as well as my other responsibilities that I accomplish simultaneously). | If you set your camera up properly your weight will be a non issue. Lots of people fidget. Hopefully no one is staring at you. Honestly you’ll get used to it.
My bigger concern would be that having the camera on would cut into your productivity. Maybe you should bring it up to your boss.
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amother
Bluebell
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Tue, Aug 08 2023, 3:45 pm
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I would turn the camera on for 1:1 or small meetings without makeup or nice clothing. In bigger meetings, it’s not so noticeable so dont bother. Meet them partway.
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amother
Bisque
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Tue, Aug 08 2023, 3:50 pm
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Sorry but the “I need my freedom” line sticks out. I assume you’re getting paid for this time by your employer. As such , you should not have your freedom. Folding laundry at the like should not be the norm and the expectation. Lucky you that you were able to do so in the past, but if your boss wants you online then get online.
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amother
Tiffanyblue
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Tue, Aug 08 2023, 3:50 pm
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Completely standard to have your camera on at all meetings. My workplace requires it. You’ve been lucky until now to fold laundry or take care of your baby but during work time they want you to be working.
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