S/o cleaning help can’t afford

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amother

Bellflower

Fri, Mar 15 2024, 12:30 am

Rappel wrote:

That would be poor management.

If you don't have a necessary skill, then acquire it - both through cleaning help, and a course/aid that will enable you to achieve those skills. Never leave yourself helpless.

While in theory you are correct, everyone is human and everyone has flaws. We are here to work with the skills we have and do the best we can. Do you take courses and resolve every flaw that you have?

amother

Tangerine

Fri, Mar 15 2024, 12:35 am

Rappel wrote:

Different people have different strengths. Not every skill is acquirable by everybody.

In my case its physical strength. I simply don't have it.

Rappel

Fri, Mar 15 2024, 1:11 am

amother Tangerine wrote:

Different people have different strengths. Not every skill is acquirable by everybody.

In my case its physical strength. I simply don't have it.

I'm extremely low energy because of an ongoing autoimmune disease. But I've decided I'm going to live, not just survive, and so I do everything to make it better.

I'm actually just finishing taking a home management course right now, for the poster whom asked if I take a course to acquire any skills I don't have XD I grew up in a house that was so dirty and overstuffed that it was sticky, and I've spent the last few years learning how to manage a household so my kids don't share my fate. Friends, neighbors, YouTube, experiments... They're all good resources for figuring this skill set out.

I have tremendous difficulty staying focused on one task and following through to the end, so it's a long process to acquire these basic skills. But I will do it.

amother

DarkMagenta

Fri, Mar 15 2024, 3:36 am

For all you saying it is necessary like bread and butter... Will you sponsor it for me? I have a spouse with mental health issues (Depression, ADHD etc), a couple of my kids have ADHD and one has a second diagnosis, a toddler who won't sleep at night, I work full time...
Yes it is very necessary but sometimes we just don't have it. And when I have qualified for community help I would not pay for cleaning help. Sorry- if you get tomchei or other community programs for the poor DON'T SPEND ON CLEANING HELP.

Now is a lean time and no paid help.

amother

Ghostwhite

Fri, Mar 15 2024, 3:42 am

Quote:

I don’t get the extra obsession with cleaning help, just clean on your own

A little contradiction here Can't Believe It

Quote:

But it’s still a huge job, I’m just overwhelmed with work and regular household stuff as it is.

Quote:

It’s a huge job. I also wish I had help.

Quote:

It’s a necessity for me too. I just literally have no way to pay for it. Literally.

Golde

Fri, Mar 15 2024, 5:31 am

amother Lilac wrote:

I really think this is cultural. Even when I was very tight financially, I had some cleaning help. I consider it a necessity. I currently have 10 hours a week which is less than almost everyone I know. I can count on one hand the people I know who don’t have cleaning help.

It's definitely cultural. Where I live, having cleaning help is generally frowned upon. The attitude is you should take care of your own dirt. If people have cleaning help, they do not talk about it. 10 hours a week would be considered a huge luxury by almost everyone I know. I don't think I've ever met anyone in real life having that much cleaning help.
Now, I'm not saying that one "culture" is better than the other. I just agree with you that it's definitely cultural and stating my experience which is the other extreme of yours.

DVOM

Fri, Mar 15 2024, 6:52 am

Last Thursday my husband had a bad migraine and I had a work deadline. We normally do a big, thorough, all-hands-on-deck Shabbos clean up Thursday nights. I told the kids that Mom and dad were out of commission for the night, and they should do their best to tidy up. My assumption was that we'd have a less sparkly home that that weekend.

My 13, 11 and 9 year olds put away their clean laundry, tidied their rooms, cleaned away all the toys and books, dusted, swept, mopped, washed the dishes, scrubbed and washed down the toilets and bathroom sink/floor, all with no prodding or supervision. They just put on music, gave out the jobs amongst themselves, got it done.

We have no cleaning help, haven't had for many years. The norm in my community (Lakewood) is definitely to have cleaning help, and lots of it. We don't miss it at all.

I'm not trying to brag. I'm know I'm going to be accused of bragging. Or of being out of touch. I'm not. My husband and I both work full time. We have a messy toddler. I have chronic low iron, and I'm not a high energy person. My husband has ADHD, and can struggle with executive functioning like so many adults with ADHD do. We and our kids are not particularly gifted in the cleaning department.

We looked at our finances, knew cleaning help was not going to be a long term solution for us, and chose to make our self sufficiency a priority. Like getting really good at anything, it takes investment, focus, and practice. But it also is a great deal of fun. Really. We listen to audio books or podcasts or music together while we clean. It gets done really fast with all of us pitching in. My kids might grumble that none of their friends need to help at home, but they also take great pride in their work. I think it feels good to contribute, to be an essential part of something bigger than yourself, to work hard and feel appreciated. And as they've gotten older, they've become more and more self sufficient, to the point where they were literally able to get the house clean without us.

There's something really sad about choosing to believe that something like cleaning help is a necessity. So many people can't afford it, and then feel resentful and angry that they need to clean up after themselves.

amother

Smokey

Fri, Mar 15 2024, 7:09 am

I clean myself as well. It is a big job but I do it slowly and feel so good when I am done.

I could potentially afford it but like many things I choose to save for retirement and for my kids college instead.

I always say people that don't have cleaning help don't need a gym membership!

MommyM

Fri, Mar 15 2024, 7:51 am

amother Brown wrote:

Learn the halochos. Moving furniture isn't necessary.

Moving the dining room table over isn't necessary?
Also, it's easier for me to clean under the beds and dressers if they're moved out of the way (and I have found big pieces of chometz there in the past with little kids around). We don't move furniture that has no space under it for any food to get left there, but the ones that do we move.

zaq

Fri, Mar 15 2024, 10:32 am

Why are you all rehashing this debate that has been going on here over and over forever? Live and let live. Medical and Dental care is a necessity that some people unfortunately lack means to provide themselves, and lack government programs to provide for them. That doesn't mean that those who have the means shouldn't acquire it. Nice clothing and secure housing ditto. Having household help isn't a sin and choosing to do without when one can afford it isn't a sign of moral superiority. Does anyone criticize men who pay others to change their tires or the oil in their cars, or launder and press their shirts? Does anyone criticize men who don't? Then why are you-all ragging each other for having or not having household help? Don't you ladies have anything better to do?

amother

Lilac

Fri, Mar 15 2024, 2:02 pm

amother OP wrote:

Where do you live?

Lakewood area

amother

Peachpuff

Fri, Mar 15 2024, 3:08 pm

amother Lilac wrote:

Lakewood area

Everyone in Lakewood has at least 20 hours of cleaning help a week? Even kollel families just scraping by?

amother

Lilac

Fri, Mar 15 2024, 3:09 pm

amother Peachpuff wrote:

Everyone in Lakewood has at least 20 hours of cleaning help a week? Even kollel families just scraping by?

Not what I said at all. I said most people in my circles have more than 10 hours. I’m in my 40s and none of my friends are in kollel.

amother

Mint

Fri, Mar 15 2024, 3:41 pm

I say everyone should do what they can afford and stop hashing it out.
I didn't the cleaning help for years. I currently have two full days a week. About 16-18 hours. It's a luxury for sure but it's one I can bh afford. I grew up with three days a week cleaning help. We all had plenty of jobs in the house but cleaning on those days was taken care of.
There is nothing wrong with having help if it's needed and you can afford it.
It may be cultural....idk. I feel like everyone does what they want. I have friends, family members and neighbors that range from no help to full time to live ins. It is all fine.

amother

Goldenrod

Fri, Mar 15 2024, 6:26 pm

We make 500k plus in Lakewood and have 8 hrs a week of cleaning help. I choose to spend my money in other ways.
Plus I hate having someone in my house with me.

amother

Taupe

Sat, Mar 16 2024, 5:51 pm

Except for a brief period many years ago, I have never had any outside cleaning help. I suppose if it was really important to me I would find the money for it, but when I had it, I just found it irritating. I didn't like having stranger rummaging through my house and I didn't like telling her what to do especially to clean up my mess. I also got frustrated when the job wasn't done to my liking or too slowly. I realised that I didn't feel like looking for someone else who in all likelihood would irritate me as well. I also felt that it was a lot of money to spend just for the house to stay tidy for a day. Perhaps if I could afford daily help, I would be more tolerant of it because bit least the house would always be clean and tidy and it would feel worth it. In any case I have managed to work full time and bring up a moderately large family with no help, even though I grew up in a community where it was a given. I have developed a fairly efficient system and everyone pitches in. My house is very pleasant, clean and tidy and I suppose the main benefit of this is that Pesach doesn't not really phase me in the slightest.

chocolate moose

Mon, Mar 18 2024, 8:37 pm

we do everything ourselves plus we work full time with a commute.

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