Selling chametz gamur and Pesach cleaning

amother

Sun, Apr 21 2024, 10:59 am

I guess this is a spin-off, and a vent.
On some other thread I saw that quite a few imamothers have a heter from their rav to sell chametz gamur, up to selling whole challot and their entire pantry.

We don't.
After having spent hours and hours hunting down crumbs and stray cereal bits, moving furniture, sweeping and vacuuming, having a backache and a nosebleed from the dust, my nerves are not at their best.
I want to know, do those who sell all their chametz gamur still do a full Pesach cleaning? Or do they rely that all the crumbs and bits and forgotten pieces are included in the sale? I mean, if someone sells whole items, surely there's no need to chase down scattered soup nuts under the couch?
Not attacking anyone, I guess I'm just jealous.

amother

Oleander

Sun, Apr 21 2024, 11:19 am

We only worry about crumbs in the kitchen and dining room where we prepare and eat the Pesach food. Otherwise crumbs are batel and you only really need to concern yourself with whole pieces of chometz. We don't allow anyone to eat outside of our kitchen and dining room ever, so we don't worry about Pesach cleaning bedrooms or toys. We also don't have little kids anymore, so we just have the kids go through their backpacks and coat pockets for anything they stash there and consolidate all food in the pantry that we close off for Pesach.

amother

Bronze

Sun, Apr 21 2024, 11:26 am

amother OP wrote:

People aren't getting heters to sell chemtz gamur. The sale of chometz is straight up halachically permitted. Not a leniency or a heter.

Yes, we still have a requirement to clean for pesach. We are working hard to prepare for pesach just like you. No shortcuts.

No one needs to move furniture to look for chometz if the furniture won't be moved in Pesach.

Forgotten pieces of chometz are actually covered by nullification of chometz which everyone does after bedikas chonetz.

amother

Freesia

Sun, Apr 21 2024, 2:57 pm

We sell chametz but also clean v hard and any known chametz we sell must be put away out of reach and sealed up and labelled. It isn't as if we have a packet of bizzli on the shelf next ot the matza. We seal up the chametz cupboards and clean the whole house including crumbs and toys.

It isn't a personal heter, it is how our kehilla rov paskens and this has been the case my whole life.

We are still jewish, BTW. LOL

I'm sure people who make their own paprika are also jewish although I wouldn't consider that to be core halacha either.

Maybe this should be part of the shidduch questionnaire- what exactly do you do for pesach.....do you stack or scrape...how often do you buy a new sheital and how many do you buy at a time Wink

amother

Daffodil

Sun, Apr 21 2024, 4:41 pm

I do a lot of stuff you don't have to do for Pesach, but I acknowledge every step of the way that it's spring cleaning. I even used to announce out loud that I'm spring cleaning so that my kids shouldn't get the idea that cleaning out your sock drawer and decluttering your stationery has anything to do with Pesach. I clean chometzdik stuff I'm putting away just because I don't like storing things dirty. Also I feel that, who are we kidding here, if the sale of chometz is supposed to be a genuine sale and not a legal fiction (ha), nobody is buying the little bits of dried-out pasta stuck to my pots and pans--but just the glop, not the pans, chas vechalilah, because then I'd have to toivel them all when I bought everything back. So I try to get rid of those little bits of stuck-on pasta and so on.

amother

Daffodil

Sun, Apr 21 2024, 4:47 pm

amother Freesia wrote:

Maybe this should be part of the shidduch questionnaire- what exactly do you do for pesach.....do you stack or scrape...how often do you buy a new sheital and how many do you buy at a time Wink

Don't get me started! About 20 years ago a friend scared the daylights out of me telling me about the kinds of questions people supposedly ask before shidduchim. Given that I stacked and scraped dishes, wore sneakers, carried a backpack and wore denim, I was sure my kids didn't stand a chance. In reality, nobody ever asked me those kinds of questions, and I don't think they asked my kids' references either. I once asked a few of that type as a joke, as a good sense of humor is very important not only to me but to my kids.

I don't mix in my children's business so I never asked them what kinds of things they discussed on dates, but as they all B"H appear to be very happily married, any discrepancies in OCD masquerading as religious observance have either been ironed out or never existed in the first place.

amother

Mayflower

Sun, Apr 21 2024, 5:40 pm

I grew up selling chametz gamur. My parents kehilla rav paskened that it was fine. My mother absolutely cleaned everything, even more than I do. Down to washing chametz pots that were being put away with the chametz. The only difference the chametz gamur selling made is that whereas I give away or throw out any pasta/flour/breadcrumbs/cereals/etc that I still have in my house and sell condiments and other foods that are not chametz gamur, my parents sold the chametz gamur as well, locked in the chametz cabinets.

amother

Steel

Sun, Apr 21 2024, 6:55 pm

lol chabad we specifically do sell chametz gamur, like if for some reason you don’t have any go out and buy some to lock in your cabinet and sell:)
But we still clean everything, all the chametz has to be in a consolidated area, you can’t just be like yay I’m selling all my chametz wherever it is; you’re not supposed to see chametz on pesach. For the crumbs, that’s what kol Chamira is for. And if in the back of my trunk I found a pretzel on pesach (true story) we still burn it because it’s not considered part of the sale - only the rooms which are specified in the sale. Bh we’re away for pesach so didn’t have to clean my house at all this year, just locked it up and sold the whole thing

amother

Narcissus

Sun, Apr 21 2024, 7:03 pm

amother Steel wrote:

What does this have to do with Chabad?

amother

Steel

Sun, Apr 21 2024, 7:09 pm

amother Narcissus wrote:

What does this have to do with Chabad?

Because in chabad we specifically make sure to sell chametz. Many people see it as a heter and others see it more as if you have then you do it. We specifically make sure that we have chametz to sell

paperflowers

Sun, Apr 21 2024, 11:03 pm

I do sell chametz gamur and that's what I rely on for the full boxes of cereal in my pantry. The tiny crumbs around the house are a completely separate issue. The food has to be a certain size (kezayis?) to count as chametz unless you are literally eating it, so the random crumbs around the house are not really a problem. Yes, we clean and we do bedikas chametz but it's really not a big deal if we miss crumbs because of it's tiny size, not because we do sell chametz gamur. My rav said it matters more to be particular about things that go on the table or near food.