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| shalhevet |
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 Posted: Mon, Sep 25 2006, 2:19 pm Post subject: Re: re: Just broke fast- feeling guilty |
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| momofgirls wrote: | | As a girl I always fasted Once I started working I only fasted on yom kippur & tisa b'av. I guess it is a matter of how you are bought up my father never made us fast. |
Actually my father never made me fast either. Does that change the halacha?
mumsy 23 wrote:
| Quote: | | There is such an inyan that a woman with small children doesn't have to fast accept y'k and t'b. so you don't have to automatically start bashing people if you don't konw all the facts. |
Could you give me a source or name a rav who has 'such an inyan'?
As for knowing all the facts I mentioned that there may be facts that I don't know, although, given the nature of the post, I would have been surprised that the poster wouldn't have mentioned them.
SaraG wrote:
| Quote: | | I think we should not bash her, but we should be mechazek her! |
What are we supposed to be giving her chizuk for? For breaking divrei haneviim?
momofgirls wrote:
| Quote: | | You can't make someone feel guilty obviously if she broke her fast then she felt the need to. |
I didn't make her feel guilty. She felt guilty herself and then asked us to justify breaking halacha. I don't think that what you say is obvious at all. She gave her reasons herself and they aren't ones which are halachically valid. Going grocery shopping is not a valid halachic reason to eat on Tzom Gedalia.
shanie5 wrote:
| Quote: | | as for breaking it, when I realize that I am getting frustrated with my children, and get angry at them quickly, I break my fast. |
Did you ask a rav if you should do so?
cindy 324 wrote:
| Quote: | What does a rav have to do with this?? Since when do you have to ask a rav whether you have to fast on Tzom Gedalyia??
And since when does halacha say that women can't break their fast on Tzom Gedalyia or even that they HAVE to fast. |
Shulchan Aruch 550;1 and Mishna Brura there. Halichos Bas Yisrael.
Please bring me a source to back up what you have said here.
It really is amazing that I'm getting bashed by so many people for quoting the halacha. Of course I also got the 'don't judge others' comments. I am not judging anyone. I didn't see a frum woman eating and decide she didn't have a heter to do so. I read a post which someone wrote here saying she broke her fast and not mentioning that she had any halachically-based heter. It's incredible here (and this is certainly not the first thread I have seen it on) that as soon as someone did something against halacha we have a string of posters saying what nice people they are, how we shouldn't judge them, how it is all fine. And the people who come with halacha are bashed and told what nasty, judging people they are.
I think the people who feel this way should make a big Cheshbon Nefesh how important Torah and mitzvos are to them. (Again, I am not talking about fasting specifically and I am clearly not including those who have heteirim not to fast.)
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| de_goldy |
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| Posted: Mon, Sep 25 2006, 2:36 pm Post subject: re: Just broke fast- feeling guilty |
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| Quote: | It really is amazing that I'm getting bashed by so many people for quoting the halacha. Of course I also got the 'don't judge others' comments. I am not judging anyone. I didn't see a frum woman eating and decide she didn't have a heter to do so. I read a post which someone wrote here saying she broke her fast and not mentioning that she had any halachically-based heter. It's incredible here (and this is certainly not the first thread I have seen it on) that as soon as someone did something against halacha we have a string of posters saying what nice people they are, how we shouldn't judge them, how it is all fine. And the people who come with halacha are bashed and told what nasty, judging people they are.
I think the people who feel this way should make a big Cheshbon Nefesh how important Torah and mitzvos are to them. (Again, I am not talking about fasting specifically and I am clearly not including those who have heteirim not to fast.) |
Well said.
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| Blossom |
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| Posted: Mon, Sep 25 2006, 2:39 pm Post subject: re: Just broke fast- feeling guilty |
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I am so surprised at this thread. Firstly if someone is feeling guilty, she needs chizuk and certainly not to be made to feel even more guilty especially when there's no reason to.
You ask how non-pregnant or non-nursing women are different than men.
I hope you realize that many women and girls have painful symptoms when they have their mestrual cycle. How about women with a few little kids who take up lots of energy. I would think there is a pretty big amount of differences and that's why as far as I know, women and girls in many circles are not obligated to fast and in some circles even discouraged from fasting.
I've never heard of women Mechuyev to fast other that Yom Kippur and Tisha B'av and I come from a family of all different kinds. I don't want to make a blanket system especially on a public forum but if you don't know what your minhag on fasting is, then you should ask, otherwise you follow your minhagim and I imagine amother that in your community it's not obligatory to fast so why feel guilty???
| Quote: | | we need the fast more then anything else. it is good for us spiritually and physically. my mother ALWAYS fasted and passed this on to me. we dont look for heterim. we should always try and do what we should to the best of our ability. if one CANT then yes they should speak to a rav. |
That's very nice and kol hakovod to you for being able to fast.
Do you have a source though that it's physically good for us? How about pregnant/nursing women. Weaker people. People with difficult after-fast hangovers etc etc.
Plus I've heard that the Koach of a person takes about 30 days to come back to him fully after a fast so If Yoml Kippur is a week away maybe it's a better idea to save your koach for a fast that is an obligation. I am not stating this as a fact and don't know the source but there are things to think about before making blanket statements.
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| amother |
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Amother
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| Posted: Mon, Sep 25 2006, 2:41 pm Post subject: re: Just broke fast- feeling guilty |
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| obviously im not talking about pregnant or nursing or other things...
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| Blossom |
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| Posted: Mon, Sep 25 2006, 2:45 pm Post subject: re: Just broke fast- feeling guilty |
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momof6, obviously there were additional halachos or meforshim on that Shulchan Aruch since I know that women in my community and family are NOT obligated to fast.
If they want to and feel up to it then Kol Hakovod to them but chances are many are either pregnant, nursing, having their menstrual, or whatever else. I guess like many other Halachos in Shulchan Aroch, you go according to how your community's minhagim are.
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| mali |
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| Posted: Mon, Sep 25 2006, 2:46 pm Post subject: Re: re: Just broke fast- feeling guilty |
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| de_goldy wrote: | | mummyof6 wrote: | It really is amazing that I'm getting bashed by so many people for quoting the halacha. Of course I also got the 'don't judge others' comments. I am not judging anyone. I didn't see a frum woman eating and decide she didn't have a heter to do so. I read a post which someone wrote here saying she broke her fast and not mentioning that she had any halachically-based heter. It's incredible here (and this is certainly not the first thread I have seen it on) that as soon as someone did something against halacha we have a string of posters saying what nice people they are, how we shouldn't judge them, how it is all fine. And the people who come with halacha are bashed and told what nasty, judging people they are.
I think the people who feel this way should make a big Cheshbon Nefesh how important Torah and mitzvos are to them. (Again, I am not talking about fasting specifically and I am clearly not including those who have heteirim not to fast.) |
Well said. | ditto!
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| amother |
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Amother
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| Posted: Mon, Sep 25 2006, 2:47 pm Post subject: re: Just broke fast- feeling guilty |
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| Quote: | | It really is amazing that I'm getting bashed by so many people for quoting the halacha. Of course I also got the 'don't judge others' comments. I am not judging anyone. I didn't see a frum woman eating and decide she didn't have a heter to do so. I read a post which someone wrote here saying she broke her fast and not mentioning that she had any halachically-based heter. It's incredible here (and this is certainly not the first thread I have seen it on) that as soon as someone did something against halacha we have a string of posters saying what nice people they are, how we shouldn't judge them, how it is all fine. And the people who come with halacha are bashed and told what nasty, judging people they are. |
I think the dont judge others ect comments come from the high and mighty attitude some have here with regards to things being (taken from another thread ) there are shivim panim ltorah , many different poskim on all topics and if someone was over on something instead of being bashed that what they did was bad , wrong ect. maybe they should be directed to a rav equipted to help her without any hurt ect. or maybe be given direction that a fast can be made up at a later date ect.
so many other options rathan than say ASUR,WRONG, BAD, FEEL GUILTY when we dont know her personal nisyonos.
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| amother |
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Amother
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| Posted: Mon, Sep 25 2006, 2:50 pm Post subject: re: Just broke fast- feeling guilty |
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| with regards to giving a psak on a forum, no u r not giving a psak across the board for others not to fast by giving chizuk to the woman who broke her fast. I think both can be done and can be done tactly if thought goes in before we hit the send button.
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| amother |
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Amother
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| Posted: Mon, Sep 25 2006, 4:37 pm Post subject: re: Just broke fast- feeling guilty |
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I have to heter from a very well-known rav to only fast on Yom Kippur and Tisha b'AV, even when I am not pregnant or nursing. I feel extremely ill when fasting, so I do not fast on minor fasts. When I do, I must stay in bed and daven in bed the entire day to get through it. I hire help to watch the kids during the times that dh in in shul.
Amother, ask a rav before the next fast as to how you should proceed!
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| ShiraMiri |
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| Posted: Mon, Sep 25 2006, 4:58 pm Post subject: re: Just broke fast- feeling guilty |
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My husband told me that as it is a minor fast day, if I get a headache or am really not feeling well I can break it. Well, UNFORTUNATELY, I don't have a headache  ! But I am feeling just awful from hunger and thirst right about now - but I don't think that's reason for me to break it. Although, just thinking about cooking dinner for the kids and watching them eat - oy!!! That is going to be torture. Also, I know I am going to be short tempered with them doing homework and such, so I need to stregthen my resolve now not to take out my discomfort on them I totally understand why in some circles women don't have to fast!!!! It is hard to care for kids when you are depleted of energy and food. Will I make it to the end of the fast?
On the other hand - it's a great way to jump start a diet!!!! 
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| drrivky |
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| Posted: Mon, Sep 25 2006, 5:23 pm Post subject: re: Just broke fast- feeling guilty |
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| if u are nursing or expecting you don thave to fast or if you are 2 years after a birth you don thave to fast lichatchila. r
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| Mitzvahmom |
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| Posted: Mon, Sep 25 2006, 6:20 pm Post subject: re: Just broke fast- feeling guilty |
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I spoke with my Mashpia and a Rabbi about my situation.
I am working, going to school, and taking care of three children on my own. It's simply not fair(or safe) to them (as they are very young),if I am out of commission. It's n ot like I have someone to play hand off with, aka u rest I will take care of them. Plus in my community it's pretty much take care of your own, esp on fast days.
Basically I was told if I am starting to feel faint, that I have to eat something I will not get pleasure out of. Just something that will give me a small push to finish the day.
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