How to respond to this statement?

amother

OP ↓

Wed, Oct 16 2024, 8:30 am

By my 16 year old son.
"I don't really believe I need to keep Torah and mitzvos, I'm just doing it for you not to make you upset until I turn 18 and then I'm outta here."

Second question:
What kind of school do I register him in next year?

amother

Chartreuse

Wed, Oct 16 2024, 8:38 am

"I appreciate your honesty. Can you tell me more about how you feel? Just so you know I probably would be upset but that doesn't mean I'll stop loving you even if you make choices that I wouldn't want you to make."

PinkFridge

Wed, Oct 16 2024, 8:57 am

amother OP wrote:

Thank him for his courtesy.
What does outta here mean to him? Tell him that you hope it means he's courteous and productive. Catch him being a mentsch. And if he says something hashkafa-wise that you find interesting in a healthy way, have some meaningful discussions. Let him know when you like the way he thinks.

And please, do get some IRL support.
Hatzlachah!

amother

↑ OP ↓

Wed, Oct 16 2024, 10:18 am

For more than two years we've been discussing, talking about different aspects of yiddishkeit. I bought him any book he was interested in for learning more. I knew he didn't believe and while that hurts, I understand that teenagehood is a growing experience, finding things out for ourselves. He's been hinting lately that he doesn't want to be frum when he's older.
I didn't know he "can't wait to get outta here." He has no tangible plans. I've been working with him to strengthen his math skills and to pick up coding which he has some background knowledge of so that he can get a job eventually.
I've worked very very hard that my home should be a nurturing relaxed atmosphere. I cannot understand what is so awful about our home that he is counting down every minute till he can get out.
Come to think of it, he refused to leave home to attend a better yeshiva year after year and absolutely hates going away to summer camp. Maybe he actually doesn't hate it here.

amother

Lime ↓

Wed, Oct 16 2024, 10:28 am

amother OP wrote:

I've worked very very hard that my home should be a nurturing relaxed atmosphere. I cannot understand what is so awful about our home that he is counting down every minute till he can get out.

He may just be looking forward to space where he can uninhibitedly do things that are assur but otherwise considered normal for non-Jews. Doing melacha on Shabbos and YT, wearing nothing on his head, having a girlfriend, watching R-rated movies. Even if he already does some of that in your home, he probably is somewhat secretive about it or if open, then still self-conscious.

That doesn't mean he thinks your home is awful.

amother

↑ Salmon ↓

Wed, Oct 16 2024, 10:42 am

He's probably feeling pressured. He is living in an environment that is so different to what he feels in some ways.

Try not to take it to heart. That may have been him rejecting you before you have a chance of rejecting him. He may have been scared you would say he can't live by you if he isn't Frum.

The fact that he's waiting till 18 is interesting too. He technically could be not Frum right now but he wants to because he is living at home.

Maybe talk to him about all this. Ask him what he wants and reassure him that you are there for him and will always love him.

I just want to add something. I have a struggling teen and we have had similar kind of conversation. His struggles are different but specifically in regards to one area of Yiddishkeit he was feeling a lot of pressure and I just took the pressure off of him and had an open conversation about it.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Wed, Oct 16 2024, 10:52 am

amother Lime wrote:

He's not this type of boy BH. It's more thar he doesn't want to be bothered with tefillin, davening, shabbos, etc.

amother

↑ Lime

Wed, Oct 16 2024, 11:04 am

amother OP wrote:

He's not this type of boy BH. It's more thar he doesn't want to be bothered with tefillin, davening, shabbos, etc.

I dont think that what I described is any bad sort of boy.

People generally don't watch R-rated movies for s_xual stimulation. There is much more provocative material easily available. It just so happens that many interesting, entertaining movies are rated R. Most normal people enjoy watching interesting, entertaining content. In the absence of halacha, there's no reason to totally nix every movie that has a single racy scene.

Romance isn't a bad thing to want, it is what a normal person wants. Not necessarily sleeping around or anything extreme. But in the absence of halacha, most people do want to have some sort of romantic life, which may be a respectful serious relationship.

Shabbos and YT I mentioned already.

But regardless of specifics, my point is just that there are a lot of things halacha makes off limits that are not otherwise terrible. A ham sandwich, a wool and linen mix, melacha on Shabbos, a girlfriend, a movie with some bad language. He may just want to loosen up in some of these ways.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Wed, Oct 16 2024, 11:05 am

amother Salmon wrote:

How do you take the pressure off him? I can't exactly tell him it's ok to use his phone on shabbos.

amother

↑ Salmon ↓

Wed, Oct 16 2024, 11:35 am

amother OP wrote:

How do you take the pressure off him? I can't exactly tell him it's ok to use his phone on shabbos.

I can't really answer to that as I'm not a Rav or professional but I could tell you the professional guidance I got.

I was told to have an open conversation and validate all the reasons he wants to do the thing you don't want him to do. And then ask about why he DOES want to do the thing you do want him him to do. In other words, give the other side a voice. He may just say to please you and the community. Validate that.

Then reassure him that whatever choices he makes you will always love him and you are here to support him.

If you don't want him being mechalel Shabbos in front of you and stuff like that I would recommend you talk to somebody. Either way I recommend you talk to someone. This is a very hard parsha to deal with on your own.

amother

Raspberry

Wed, Oct 16 2024, 11:58 am

Consider Waterbury.
It’sa very very good place for a boy to still feel connected to the frum world even if he is struggling, it prevents that feeling of disenfranchisement, which is huge.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Wed, Oct 16 2024, 12:21 pm

amother Salmon wrote:

Thanks. I hear what you're saying. It's a lot more complicated but I can't elaborate so much. Executive dysfunction, dishonesty, a lot of complications. I can't have a mature serious discussion with him.

amother

↑ Salmon

Wed, Oct 16 2024, 12:49 pm

amother OP wrote:

I'm sorry. My son has lots of issues too. I'm sure it's not easy. I hope you have someone to guide you because this is hard.

amother

Jean ↓

Wed, Oct 16 2024, 12:59 pm

Does he have a learning disability? Such boys usually feel extra pressure and feel bad that they can’t keep up with their peers, and reading Hebrew is hard so davening etc. is extra hard for them.

amother

↑ Jean ↓

Wed, Oct 16 2024, 1:01 pm

amother OP wrote:

I’d find a Jewish vocational school, I think darchei in far Rockaway has a program. That way he’s in a Jewish environment but learning a trade he can do as soon as he turns 18. I’d also focus on discussing drugs, safe s-x, making good choices etc. because a lot of these kids once they are free go to extremes. So set him up with knowledge and to be successful in the greater world so he doesn’t mess up his life with bad choices.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Wed, Oct 16 2024, 1:15 pm

amother Salmon wrote:

I'm sorry. My son has lots of issues too. I'm sure it's not easy. I hope you have someone to guide you because this is hard.

Thanks. A sweet new year of blessings for you and your son.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Wed, Oct 16 2024, 1:18 pm

amother Jean wrote:

Does he have a learning disability? Such boys usually feel extra pressure and feel bad that they can’t keep up with their peers, and reading Hebrew is hard so davening etc. is extra hard for them.

He reads and translates fluently but his comprehension is below age level. He doesn't have a good grasp of what he learns even if he can parrot it.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Wed, Oct 16 2024, 1:24 pm

amother Jean wrote:

I am thinking in this direction as well, a Jewish vocational school.