Why do we need to daven so much, Hashem always forgives us

Log in / Sign Up

List of Forums + New Post Recipe Box Usergroups Following My Posts Bookmarks

Private Messages Rules New User Guide FAQ Advertise Contact Us

Forum -> Yom Tov / Holidays -> Rosh Hashana-Yom Kippur

1 2 Next

View latest: 24h 48h 72h

amother

OP ↓

Sat, Oct 12 2024, 6:27 pm

Dd questioned this today.
Hashem always forgives us, what difference does it name how much I daven?
(Bli ayn hora shes a very good girl, always tries to do everything right)

amother

DarkPurple

Sat, Oct 12 2024, 7:54 pm

Davening is talking to hashem. It's how we build a relationship.

amother

Blonde

Sat, Oct 12 2024, 8:02 pm

Does He always forgive? I thought only for what we confess and do teshuva for. Also, davening isn't all asking for forgiveness.

amother

Amaryllis ↓

Sat, Oct 12 2024, 8:07 pm

Does he always forgive? How do we know? Were the people hashem caused to die last year forgiven on YK?

What does forgiveness look like and what does lack of forgiveness look like?

amother

↑ OP

Sat, Oct 12 2024, 8:17 pm

amother Blonde wrote:

Does He always forgive? I thought only for what we confess and do teshuva for. Also, davening isn't all asking for forgiveness.

In her eyes, as a 12 yr old she feels he forgives. She knows Hashem is our compassionate father and assumes in her emuna pshuta the He forgives us all.
We can't know why things happen, what is a punishment or a nisayon..

mommy3b2c

Sat, Oct 12 2024, 8:18 pm

amother Amaryllis wrote:

Does he always forgive? How do we know? Were the people hashem caused caused to die last year forgiven on YK?

What does forgiveness look like and what does lack of forgiveness look like?

Are you serious ? You think everyone who died last year it was because Hashem didn’t forgive them ? So all the little children that died last year it was because Hashem didn’t forgive their sins ??

dena613

Sat, Oct 12 2024, 8:28 pm

amother OP wrote:

So teach her that YK is mechaper if we do teshuva. Even a thought of teshuva is teshuva.
And also that YK is the yom hakadosh- a very opportune time for tefillah and developing a relationship with HKBH.

amother

↑ Amaryllis ↓

Sat, Oct 12 2024, 8:53 pm

mommy3b2c wrote:

I had a feeling when I glanced at your response that you wouldn't answer the point I made. Instead you would argue it by making grand statements like, are you serious?

I'm having an adult conversation. The op pointed out that hashem always forgives us. I'm asking if there is a way we can tell when hashem forgives us.

Certainly when reshaim die we say hashem extracted revenge on them and killed them. But is there a way to understand forgiveness for us, his children? Do we just assume we are all forgiven regardless of what hashem does to us?

What about non religious Jews. The ones that ate pork on YK. Does hashem forgive them as well? How can you tell? This is somewhat an extreme example of the op's question. If we say that hashem blindly forgives us simply because we are his children, then is davening necessary for that? Does hashem automatically forgive us no matter what we do?

amother

Lime ↓

Sat, Oct 12 2024, 9:49 pm

It’s an excellent question.
Three things help: Teshuva, Tefillah and Tzedaka. Hashem expects us to do our best. When we do our best we can be comfortable that he forgave us, but that doesn’t work unless we do what’s on us to do.
Hashem knows what’s in our hearts and our clarity and understanding and what’s on us is within that space - not someone else’s.

amother

↑ Amaryllis ↓

Sat, Oct 12 2024, 9:55 pm

amother Lime wrote:

Do you mind if I ask about this? You say these 3 things help. Help with what exactly? If we look at the people who died in the past year it would be ridiculous to say that they did less teshuva, davened less, or gave less tzedakah. They really didn't. So what does it help with?

My rav got up today before neilah and he tearfully reminded us that the gates of shamayim are open now. Hashem is rachamim on yom kipper. Neilah is our last opportunity to ask hashem for what we need. Life, health, shiduchim.....Yet I think common sense tells us that the people who begged hashem last year during neilah, did teshuva, and davened, didn't have any better results than the random unaffiliated jews that didn't do anything and stayed home and watched tv during yk while eating dinner.

So what does this actually mean? Do you honestly see the people who did teshuva doing better than others?

You say hashem expects us to do our best. I find that people who aren't trying at all aren't fearing any different than people trying their best. I hope this Q is ok.

sequoia

Sat, Oct 12 2024, 9:59 pm

amother Amaryllis wrote:

Certainly when reshaim die we say hashem extracted revenge on them and killed them.

Since everyone is mortal, how do you know if someone died because “Hashem killed them” or because everyone dies?

amother

Clover

Sat, Oct 12 2024, 10:00 pm

amother Amaryllis wrote:

We need to daven our best. That doesnt take away, that every person has a tafkid to fulfill and at a certain time that hashem determined for him, his tafkid will be over and he will be taken from this world. and then theres the whole concept of gigulim...

Hello2u2

Sat, Oct 12 2024, 10:01 pm

Just posting a nice quote I saw, not so on topic here...
A human being gets, gets and forgets. Hashem gives, gives and forgives.

amother

Valerian ↓

Sat, Oct 12 2024, 10:03 pm

mommy3b2c wrote:

What about the adults? For whatever reason, last Yom Kippur their decree was not to live. If we follow the logic of forgiveness or not, then it's logical to say that people who die during the year weren't forgiven on that last YK

amother

↑ Lime ↓

Sat, Oct 12 2024, 10:11 pm

amother Amaryllis wrote:

It’s a great question, and it deserves a good answer.

The way I understand it, Hashem’s decisions for our year aren’t based just on this world or what we tend to focus on. Rather, He’s looking at what will truly be best for us, with an eye toward maximizing our reward in Olam Habah, which lasts forever. In comparison, this world is fleeting. It would actually be a disservice to us if Hashem simply gave us what we thought we wanted, without considering what would benefit us in the long run for eternity. So, Hashem’s decisions aren’t about good or bad as we may have learned growing up. Instead, they’re part of a much bigger calculation that takes our ultimate good into account.

For someone who passed away, it could mean they completed their mission in this world. For others, the hardships they face might be a way to draw them closer to Hashem, or serve as a way to cleanse past mistakes. Hashem’s calculations are vast and far-reaching, beyond what we can fully comprehend.

Teshuva, Tefillah, and Tzedaka don’t work like a direct guarantee for specific outcomes in this world. Instead, they help us align with what’s ultimately best for us, even if we don’t always understand how that plays out.

(As an aside, when it comes to Tefillah, it’s not just about presenting a list of requests to Hashem. The deeper purpose is to connect with Hashem through the ideas and concepts we focus on during Tefillah. It elevates us when we truly recognize who is in control and the depth of the loving relationship we have with Him.)

amother

Hosta

Sat, Oct 12 2024, 11:21 pm

Tell her we daven for all of Am Yisroel, everywhere , we also daven for lifting the neshamas of our loved ones who have passed away. We daven for the world, we daven for our government and (not always Jewish) leaders, we daven for our Rabbi, we daven for the people in our lives etc.
Tzaddikim daven too. A holocaust survivor on her first Yom Kippur explained her Vidoy - as she had no opportunity to commit any of the sins listed in Ashamnu, in the camps. It was for the world.
We know that tzaddikim are punished with Reshaim so we want us all to be forgiven. I know mothers of OTD children who daven for their childrens forgiveness..its not just about Hashem forgiving just us.
Of course she is a good girls, OP , and that is why she is asking.

amother

Antiquewhite

Sat, Oct 12 2024, 11:22 pm

Op your daughter sounds like a very special thoughtful girl. Much nachas!
And you sound like an amazing mother B"H she can and does come to you with her questions.

amother

Lotus

Sat, Oct 12 2024, 11:26 pm

Because there are different levels of forgiveness and different levels of Teshuva.

We daven the Hashem count whatever Teshuva we managed to do for all it's worth. And grant us as much forgiveness as possible for the Teshuvah we did.

A loving father forgives... But that doesn't mean that he won't ever give consequences to his children. Especially if he sees the children keep doing the things he's trying to teach them not to do.

lucky14

Sat, Oct 12 2024, 11:48 pm

I always thought of davening as something we do for us. To strengthen our connection to Hashem. So like on Yom Kippur and Rosh Hashana our davening helps to make us better. Like Yom Kippur really gets us to think about what we have done wrong and really regret it and think about working on ourselves to make good choices in our actions, thoughts, etc.

amother

↑ Amaryllis ↓

Sun, Oct 13 2024, 12:18 am

lucky14 wrote:

Right. But the words in davening on RH and YK say that teshuva, tefilah, and tzedakah will tear up the bad decree.

Is there any way to apply this so that it has meaning or value?

To me it doesn't seem so. It seems we have to come on to explanations such as....hashem really knows what's best for us so perhaps when he's making the people who did these 3 things die, it's BECAUSE they did these 3 things and hashem in his wisdom knew that it's best for them to suffer and die.

Page 1 of 2

1 2 Next