Swimming in a mixed pool

↑ Chayalle ↓

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 5:13 am

amother Candycane wrote:

By mixed you mean father, mother and kids? Or you mean extended family? Because if it’s extended family every Lakewood family I know was told the opposite.

I mean total extended family. A close relative of mine (nope, not my daughter) recently married into this family, and she was invited to family swim. Including several married siblings of her husband. She was a little freaked out to hear this, actually.

↑ Chayalle ↓

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 5:14 am

amother Candycane wrote:

By mixed you mean father, mother and kids? Or you mean extended family? Because if it’s extended family every Lakewood family I know was told the opposite.

TBH I was pretty surprised.
I guess my take away is to always ask Sheilos. And probably every scenario varies and makes a difference....

↑ LovesHashem

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 5:15 am

tulip3 wrote:

So a rollercoaster should be assur too.
There are some wrap skirts for swimming that don't ride up in a pool.

Mine has snaps to snap it between your legs. Either way if I'm at a half Olympian size pool and there's 2 50 year old men doing laps on the other side I'm really not sure how much they are able to see.

amother

↑ Candycane ↓

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 5:16 am

Chayalle wrote:

Wow I’m shocked. Mixing like this usually has even more halahcic problems. I’m having a hard time believing it. They must have misunderstood. Or maybe they lied to convince everyone was fine. I hope she asked her own shaila.

amother

↑ Candycane ↓

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 5:17 am

Chayalle wrote:

TBH I was pretty surprised.
I guess my take away is to always ask Sheilos. And probably every scenario varies and makes a difference....

Or the takeaway is don’t believe someone claiming they got a psak and get your own. Just because someone tells me she got an ok doesn’t mean I am halachically also allowed to do it.

amother

Steelblue ↓

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 6:30 am

B'Syata D'Shmya wrote:

I read it, I dont see the leeway. It's quite clear from the article that mixed swimming is reason for divorce (Eiruvin 18B).

That is not at all what the article says. It says mixed nude bathing is grounds for divorce.

This does not mean that mixed tznius swimming is a reason for divorce

↑ B'Syata D'Shmya ↓

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 9:37 am

amother Steelblue wrote:

That is not at all what the article says. It says mixed nude bathing is grounds for divorce.

This does not mean that mixed tznius swimming is a reason for divorce

The nude was in parenthesis.... the spirit of it was clear.

amother

↑ Steelblue

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 9:44 am

B'Syata D'Shmya wrote:

The nude was in parenthesis.... the spirit of it was clear.

I didn't see parenthesis

But the spirit is not clear - it refers very much to bathing, I.e. cleaning oneself. Of course in the past people did not have the facilities to do so at home.
This does not have anything to do with modern leisure activities. Divorce is not relevant to the OPs original question

↑ B'Syata D'Shmya ↓

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 10:19 am

Chayalle wrote:

I know a family that has a very large pool. I heard they got a psak from a very prominent Lakewood Rav that they can have family swim, with the men congregating in one end, and the women at the other end in cover-ups.

Brothers in law and Sisters in law???

amother

Electricblue

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 10:33 am

Chayalle wrote:

But what's the point? Why not do seperate swims or take turns? They're anyway not swimming together.

amother

Honeysuckle

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 10:33 am

B'Syata D'Shmya wrote:

The nude was in parenthesis.... the spirit of it was clear.

That was because it was explaining the sort of bathing being referred to....for cleanliness, not for leisure. It’s a different sort of bathing and not what we colloquially refer to nowadays as "swimming."

amother

↑ Khaki ↓

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 10:47 am

B'Syata D'Shmya wrote:

Brothers in law and Sisters in law???

This. I don't believe that a prominent mainstream Rav paskened that brothers in law & sisters in law can go swimming together. It's no different halachically than any random man/women going swimming together. In fact, halacha may even be more harsh when it comes to brothers in law/sisters in law.

↑ Chayalle

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 10:49 am

amother Khaki wrote:

Yeah I thought so too. I know the family (well-known family) and the name of the Rav.
Agree, don't believe everything you hear. Ask your own sheilos.
Also note - they are not going swimming "together". Just in same pool. Different ends of large pool. Same body of water.
Halacha being more harsh between BIL/SIL is with Yichud. Nothing to do with swimming.

↑ B'Syata D'Shmya ↓

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 10:54 am

Chayalle wrote:

I imagine if the whole family are together, the men will control their thoughts and eyes. Still,Just because they say that one Rav gave the OK, doesnt mean I would do it. Even in the tzanuah bathing suits (and most are much more tight-fitting than I would feel comfortable in), I would prefer women swim time and men swim time. Why the pressure of swimming together in the same pool?? I wouldnt enjoy.

amother

↑ Candycane

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 10:59 am

Chayalle wrote:

We have a very large pool. It’s not so large when you swim. You reach the other side fast. Unless they are standing around I don’t even understand how that works. And to say stamm for leisure swim sure go ahead? That’s not like a special medical or extreme situation that requires an exception. I’m having trouble believing they understand correctly. Maybe he meant take shifts. That’s what we do at family get togethers.

amother

↑ Khaki

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 11:06 am

Chayalle wrote:

The issur of mixed swimming is being in the same body of water. I find it hard to believe that a prominent Rav okayed it, and that a typical yeshivish family even wanted to do this.
I think they must've misunderstood something along the way.

↑ B'Syata D'Shmya

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 11:10 am

amother Honeysuckle wrote:

So my thinking is that swimming may be worse since you move around a lot and may "bump into" one another - Look Im not arguing with you about the permissibility of mix swimming. Its something I wont do, nor would I want my dh to do. Happily he agrees with me.. OP asked about her kids - till what age etc. Her question assumes that she wouldnt want her kids going mixed swimming at a certain age and she was asking what age should that be.
To turn her question into a debate if mixed swimming is allowed and under what circumstanced - is outside the scope of her OP.
( I guess then the answer to OP is till 120)

amother

Peachpuff

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 3:37 pm

Many people here are not understanding the reason for not going mixed swimming. It's not about the way one is dressed. It's about being in an enclosed body of water with the opposite gender. It's equivalent to touching.
So one who is makpid with negia should also be makpid with mixed swimming regardless of a cover up or not

amother

↑ Calendula

Tue, Jun 25 2024, 6:27 am

Chayalle wrote:

I'm sorry I am still not mekabel that a prominent Rav allowed this.
Not saying I don't believe you, but somewhere along the way something got misinterpreted.