Explaining Dinosaurs to Kids

↑ Seraph

Sun, Sep 25 2011, 3:09 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

Seraph wrote:

poemmom wrote:

For those of you who are open to a scientific view and would like to better understand how it fits in with a religious perspective, I would like to recommend an excellent book, "The Challenge of Creation: Judaism's Encounter with Science, Cosmology, and Evolution" by Rabbi Natan Slifkin.

Amazon Link

Again, this book is NOT for those of you who who have decided to stick with the idea that science and Torah are opposed -- I am not trying to convince anyone to think differently, just mentioning a resource that will be of extreme interest to anyone who believes that Hashem wants us to use rational science to investigate the world He created, and would like to understand how the scientific evidence for evolution, dinosaurs, etc. is perfectly complementary with the truth of Torah.

I feel the need to add as a disclaimer that this book was banned by the vast majority of leaders of chareidi jewery, and many rabbanim came out and said frum jews shouldnt read it.
Lest you think that what is written in the book is accepted de facto and theres no problem reading it.

The poster wrote "For those of you who are open to a scientific view".......

ok... I am open to a scientific view, but at the same time, wouldn't read a book banned by chareidi gedolim.

And sequoia, I never said all are required to follow chareidi gedolim's psakim. But I still wanted to share it for those that weren't aware of the ban and DO follow chareidi gedolim.

↑ poemmom ↓

Sun, Sep 25 2011, 3:15 am

Maybe "open to a scientific view" wasn't the best way to phrase it. I was just trying to be non-confrontational in describing the book so as to recommend it only to those who believe that Judaism teaches intellectual freedom of the individual. I realize the haredi view is different, and the author himself warns in the introduction that those who would be uncomfortable reading such views should not read the book.

↑ shabbatiscoming ↓

Sun, Sep 25 2011, 3:17 am

Seraph wrote:

shabbatiscoming wrote:

Seraph wrote:

poemmom wrote:

The poster wrote "For those of you who are open to a scientific view".......

Right, but many other Frum Jews would read a book even if it was banned by a charedi rav. I for one have no clue what any charedi rabbanim ban as that is not my religious circle and so it has no barring on my life. Does that make sense?

↑ Tova ↓

Sun, Sep 25 2011, 3:22 am

BTW, the book in poemmom's link is NOT banned. It is the rewritten version. The banned book I believe is called Science and Torah, published by Feldheim (and his name is Nosson and not Natan on the cover Wink

). The book was out for YEARS before it became controversial. And it can be had, for a LOT more than $29.

↑ HindaRochel ↓

Tue, Sep 27 2011, 10:36 am

Seraph wrote:

shabbatiscoming wrote:

Seraph wrote:

poemmom wrote:

The poster wrote "For those of you who are open to a scientific view".......

I would...but then I don't follow Charedi gedolim, for one reason, because of the above.

↑ Ruchel ↓

Tue, Sep 27 2011, 10:42 am

I really wonder if all charedim banned the book. I didn't read it, but from what I know, a nice number of more modern charedi rabbanim don't oppose the one day = more theory...

I found this list

Rav Israël Eliyahou Weintraub, membre du Kollel Hazon Ich
Rav Mikhal Yehouda Lefkovits, Roch Yechiva de Ponevezh Katana et Membre de la Moetzes Gedolei haTorah de Degel haTorah's
Rabbi Naftoli Elzas: Rosh Yeshivat Marbeh Torah
HaRav Yossef Shalom Elyachiv
HaRav Aharon Leib Shteinman,
HaRav Chaim Pinchas Scheinberg,
HaRav Shmuel Auerbach,
HaRav Yitzchok Sheiner, Yechivat Kaminetz Jérusalem
HaRav Shmuel Birnbaum, Yechivat Mir
HaRav Avrahom Chaim Levine, Yeshiva Telshe Chicago
Rabbi Moshe Sternbuch
Maran RavOvadia Yossef
HaRav Shmuel Avigdor Feivelson, Yeshivat Beit Midrash LeTorah,
HaRav Eliyoh Simchah Shustal, Yeshivat Beit Binyamin,
HaRav Yisrael Perkovsky, Yeshivat Beit HaTalmud,
HaRav Elya Ber Wachtfogel, Yeshivat South Fallsberg,
HaRav Chaim Stein, Yeshivat Telz,
HaRav Aryeh Malkiel Kotler, Yeshivat Beit Midrash Gevoha,
HaRav Meir Hershkowitz, Yeshivat Beit Binyamin,
HaRav Yossef Rosenbloom, Yeshivat Shaarei Yosher,
HaRav Rafaël Halevy Schorr, Yeshiva de Monsey,
HaRav Mattisyahu Salomon, Menahel rouchani de la Yeshivat Lakewood
HaRav David Feinstein, Yeshivat Tiferet Yerushalayim.
Rav Uren Reich, Yeshiva of Woodlake Village de Lakewood
Rabbi Yaakov Perlow
HaRav Don Zeev Halevy Segal,
HaRav Moshe Shapira de Bayit Vegan,
HaRav Yehuda Adess, Yeshivat Kol Yaakov
HaRav Yaakov Hillel, YeshivatAhavat Sholom

It seems to me that the common point is in Israel, shtark charedi, or both. Smile

Last edited by Ruchel on Tue, Sep 27 2011, 10:46 am; edited 1 time in total

FranticFrummie

Wed, Sep 28 2011, 3:31 am

hadasa wrote:

MaBelleVie wrote:

Can someone who does not allow dinosaurs in her home explain the rationale?

For entertainment purposes, as mentioned above, Lubavitchers don't allow any non-Kosher animals. For educational purposes, a. Any educational material that discusses dinosaurs will have numbers of years that go against my belief. b. I'm not sure they actually existed. c. Since the issue is complicated, with several possible answers, I'd rather not bring it up until it comes up on its own.

DD is 8, and fascinated by science of all types, including dinosaurs. I go by the theory that Torah and science are completely compatible, although we don't have all the answers yet. I tell her that Hashem created time, so He can't be controlled by time. Since we don't know how long a "day" is to Hashem, because He is timeless, the Torah just says "day" because that's what makes it easier for people to understand. She totally understood that, and that's a complicated concept!

BTW, DH is Lubavitch, and he agrees with me 100%. He doesn't hold by the "young earth" philosophy. (He's such a rebel, LOL!)

↑ hadasa ↓

Wed, Sep 28 2011, 4:15 am

It's suprising that a self-proclaimed Lubavitcher can adhere to a belief against which the Rebbe wrote so strongly. The Lubavitcher Rebbe's opinion is that the claim that Sheishes Yemei Bereishis was anything other than six twenty-four-hour periods undermines a. The meaning of Shabbos as witness to G-d's creation, and b. The validity of all Gittin ever issued and dated x years from Brias Haolam. Your husband may self-identify as a Lubavitcher, but that doesn't mean his beliefs are compatible with the Rebbe's philosophy.

↑ hadasa ↓

Wed, Sep 28 2011, 5:44 am

sequoia wrote:

IME there is an enormous amount of diversity and variety in the Lubavitch world, as well as a rather significant ideologically rigid segment which seeks to ignore and undermine said diversity and variety.

The fact that Lubavitch does not kick out of the community anybody who digresses slightly from its beliefs and standards of behavior does not mean those beliefs and standards are nonexistant. The Rebbe would speak and write very adamantly on certain issues, without leaving any room for diversity. As a friend of mine put it : Lubavitch says to love every Jew no matter what - that doesn't mean you can BE the "no matter what". ".