Explaining Dinosaurs to Kids

↑ sequoia ↓

Sat, Sep 24 2011, 9:10 pm

saw50st8 wrote:

We go with "a long time ago."

I don't believe that the fossils were just put there as fossils, so I'm of no help.

When my kids get to the age when they want definitive answers to time, then we'll deal with the answer differently.

But I dont' believe that the world is literally 6,000 years old so I'm probably the wrong person to ask.

In case you haven't noticed, about half the posters on this thread seem to be of your view.

You aren't a lone voice among young earthers Smile

↑ MaBelleVie ↓

Sat, Sep 24 2011, 9:26 pm

hadasa wrote:

MaBelleVie wrote:

Thanks, I meant dinosaurs in particular, not the general chabad outlook.

that's what I wrote "for educational purposes".

Yes, but I figured that if you screen animals in general you might not see a purpose in introducing dinosaurs.

But after thinking about it, I realized that a dinosaur discussion can actually be a lot more educational than teaching about bears or rabbits. Because with dinosaurs there is a built in Torah perspective, which is a springboard for both religious and secular knowledge. Why would you hold off on it?

↑ Seraph ↓

Sat, Sep 24 2011, 10:12 pm

HindaRochel wrote:

Barbara wrote:

ElTam wrote:

Quote:

Hashem created the world with a lot of things in it, and not all of it was made looking brand new.

I'm not trying to start a fight; I really want to understand this. Why would HaShem create things to look different ages. I believe that everything that is in creation exists for a reason, what would HaShem's reason be?

Far be it from me to suggest that Hashem doesn't create things that I don't see a reason for -- bedbugs, cockroaches, cancer, tsunamis.

But what I don't believe is that Hashem places stumbling blocks before the blind or, IOW, creates all kinds of evidence of one thing (the existence of dinosaurs, the age of the world) in a way that confuses us. Especially when there are other ways to fully reconcile the existence of dinosaurs with Biblical creation.

This.
And we just answer their questions. Little ones just want to play with dinosaurs. I like the "Magic School Bus" for science for the little ones.

Thats exactly the problem. My son does watch the magic school bus videos, and has seen the dinosaur video more than once. And each time, I feel I need to give an explanation, because I don't believe in the few million/billion years ago that scientists claim and don't want him believing in it either.

↑ hadasa ↓

Sat, Sep 24 2011, 10:39 pm

MaBelleVie wrote:

hadasa wrote:

MaBelleVie wrote:

Thanks, I meant dinosaurs in particular, not the general chabad outlook.

that's what I wrote "for educational purposes".

Once again, animals in general are screened only when they serve no educational role, like stuffed toys, decorations etc. I have no problem with children reading about the life and ways of bears or rabbits.

It is not my Shitah to deliberately expose young children to things I don't believe in, in order to teach the "Torah perspective". The same way I don't teach them about X-tianity or evolution. If the topic comes up, I deal with it to the best of my ability.

↑ hadasa ↓

Sat, Sep 24 2011, 10:54 pm

MaBelleVie wrote:

So the simple answer would be that you don't teach your kids about dinosaurs because you don't believe in them.

It's just slightly more nuanced than that. As I wrote :

Quote:

a. Any educational
material that discusses dinosaurs
will have numbers of years that
go against my belief. b. I'm not
sure they actually existed. c. Since
the issue is complicated, with
several possible answers, I'd
rather not bring it up until it
comes up on its own.

↑ Seraph ↓

Sat, Sep 24 2011, 11:39 pm

DrMom wrote:

I don't really understand the issue here. Why is the (former) existence of dinosaurs -- or any extinct species -- a contradiction to Torah?

Because dinosaurs specifically were said to have lived years before brias haolam was said to have happened. So then it leads to the question- who is lying/mistaken, the scientists, or the Torah? Or there are explanations, but they may be too complicated for a kid to understand, which again, causes issues.

Quote:

The only controversy I see is the dating issue, which is not consistent with one very literal/"pshat" interpretation of the age of the universe.

This "one very literal pshat interpretation" is how the whole world was understood by the frum world until apologetics tried to find answers so their faith in the torah didn't get shattered when something came out that seemed to contradict the torah and the basis for our belief.

For the record, I think probably 75% of orthodox jewery or more believes that the world was created 6000 years ago, and that its a minority that believes in evolotion being compatable iwth the torah.

↑ poemmom ↓

Sat, Sep 24 2011, 11:42 pm

For those of you who are open to a scientific view and would like to better understand how it fits in with a religious perspective, I would like to recommend an excellent book, "The Challenge of Creation: Judaism's Encounter with Science, Cosmology, and Evolution" by Rabbi Natan Slifkin.

Amazon Link

Again, this book is NOT for those of you who who have decided to stick with the idea that science and Torah are opposed -- I am not trying to convince anyone to think differently, just mentioning a resource that will be of extreme interest to anyone who believes that Hashem wants us to use rational science to investigate the world He created, and would like to understand how the scientific evidence for evolution, dinosaurs, etc. is perfectly complementary with the truth of Torah.

↑ sequoia ↓

Sat, Sep 24 2011, 11:47 pm

Seraph wrote:

For the record, I think probably 75% of orthodox jewery or more believes that the world was created 6000 years ago, and that its a minority that believes in evolotion being compatable iwth the torah.

Wow, Seraph, where did you get this incredible statistical knowledge?

If I were to judge from my experience, I'd say the opposite -- 75% of orthodox Jews acknowledge evolution as a scientific fact and don't interpret bereishis literally. One of my first dates with dh was at the Museum of Natural History and we had a long and fascinating conversation about science and Torah.

But I'd never say that because I know that orthodox Jewry isn't limited to my UWS/midtown Manhattan circles. But nor is it limited by YOUR circles.

↑ Seraph ↓

Sat, Sep 24 2011, 11:53 pm

sequoia wrote:

Seraph wrote:

For the record, I think probably 75% of orthodox jewery or more believes that the world was created 6000 years ago, and that its a minority that believes in evolotion being compatable iwth the torah.

Where did I get my idea from? Because as far as I know, evolution isn't accepted as fact by chareidi circles and not by most yeshivish or chabad people, and I have a feeling that the percentage of MO jews in comparison to Orthodox Jewery as a whole is probably something like 25%. But maybe I'm wrong.

natmichal

Sat, Sep 24 2011, 11:53 pm

Seraph, I didn't properly read the whole post- but here is what we did.
1- when small - we didn't introduce the kids to dinosaurs, but they did come up with them on their own (friends etc) by age 3).
2- we didn't "explain" anything at this stage since they did not ask where they could see one etc and viewed them as robots/cookie monster etc- meaning as fantasy stuff - le'havdil from cats, goats etc
3- at a later stage when they asked if they existed (the subject came up between kids in gan!), we explained that some peop[le say they did, and gave a shorten explanation on the million year long day of briyat ha'olam
and then... we got a very nice "answer"- the kids got the book:
"...and then there were dinosaurs" by Sari Steinberg. Which very nicely explains that Hashem created several worlds before ours (and they had no problem with that since they know of Noa'h and the Mabul). In a nutshell, in the book Hashem is creating the 6th world and wants animals on Eretx Israel. He ends up with dinosaurs and the Land says it will provide for food etc (etz oseh pri...) as long as they behave nicely to each other. At the beggining all is good , then they start fighting being egoistic etc, till the Land does not produce any thing and till the very ending when Hashem and Eretz Israel make a major earthquake/volcano eruption and all is destroyed. The last picture is of man emerging from earth (with a "finger of Hashem- more explanations to be given here...).
Of course, by now our kids understand it;s all a story. But we told them that the concept of 6 worlds before ours is a midrash , and that therefore it could be that according to the same midrash you'd have dinosaurs, which would explain the findings archeologists found (because your kids are too young to bring this up to you, but they will eventually).
From my point of view- it means my kids are aware that dinosaurs don't exist in our world, but might have some point, and if they did they were a creation of Hashem. AND they get the positive message that sin'at 'hinam leads to destruction (as it did with the beit mikdash)
So far, they're happy with this. If we get to the point when we need to explain more, we'll see.

↑ Seraph ↓

Sat, Sep 24 2011, 11:55 pm

poemmom wrote:

I feel the need to add as a disclaimer that this book was banned by the vast majority of leaders of chareidi jewery, and many rabbanim came out and said frum jews shouldnt read it.
Lest you think that what is written in the book is accepted de facto and theres no problem reading it.

↑ shabbatiscoming ↓

Sun, Sep 25 2011, 12:01 am

Seraph wrote:

poemmom wrote:

The poster wrote "For those of you who are open to a scientific view".......