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-> Yom Tov / Holidays
-> Chanukah
amother
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 Thu, Jan 02 2025, 7:42 am
| amother PlumPink wrote: | Its actually different.
We daven by the Shabbos Licht to USE them. Not because of the kedusha. |
What??? Do you not believe in the concept of kedusha? It’s our main tachlis as women to turn chamor matters into kedusha. That’s the essence of lighting shabbos licht, turning the mundane weekday into kedusha of shabbos. An eis ratzon and kedusha is not at all a chassidish concept. It’s literally the basics of Yiddishkeit
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amother
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Thu, Jan 02 2025, 7:44 am
| amother PlumPink wrote: |
This davening by the Licht, inspiration by the candles - I mean yes there's kedusha. But we don't sit and be inspired by the Shabbos Licht. We don't say tehillim over the shechita knife. We don't hold onto the kedusha of the Kiddush cup. We don't dance and linger and tie a note with a bakasha onto the eruv tavshilin egg
Im not trying to be rude. . |
You don't have to try. You simply are rude. Speaking in condescending tones regarding mizvahs yidden feel kedusha in is rude..
Now you can have your eruv tavshillin egg. Just don't forget a bracha.
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amother
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Thu, Jan 02 2025, 7:45 am
| amother Apple wrote: | But Torah is not just halacha. Halacha is the parameters of what we can and can’t do. The Torah is all encompassing. It’s the blueprint of the world. Do you dismiss the parts of the Torah that are not coming to teach Halacha, but rather a middah or an element of this world?
The Torah at har Sinai was given with 4 different understandings, all of which are true. Pshat, drash, remez, and sod. Kabala is as much a part of the Torah as the pshat is, it’s just more esoteric and harder to understand. That’s why we have tzaddikim who can bring it down to our level and tell us practically what to do.
Signed,
Daughter of a hardcore yekke, married to a heimishe chossid |
Thank you for saying this so well.
OP is quoting her (I’m sure very special) husband like Torah l’moshe misinai but the words of a rebbe are not ‘sourced’ enough to be emes.
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self-actualization
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Thu, Jan 02 2025, 7:46 am
Maharal Ner Mitzva:
And there was only one day to light it, and a miracle was performed to light it for eight days (Shabbat 21:). For these are eight days that a miracle was performed in the light, this comes from the virtue of the Holy of Holies, where the Greeks did not control the virtue that it has, and it is the austerity of a high priest. And for this reason they lit it for eight days, because the Holy of Holies is after seven, and this is the eighth. And why is the Holy of Holies after seven, because the administration of the natural world is under the number seven, because in seven days this natural world was created. And therefore what is after nature is under the number eight, because* eight is after the seven days of nature. And for this reason the circumcision is above nature, because according to nature man is born uncircumcised, and this is because nature allows him to be uncircumcised, and circumcision is above nature, and for this reason the circumcision is on the eighth day (Leviticus 12:3). And because everything that is holy is* distinct from nature, which is corporeal and material, and for this reason the Holy of Holies, which is completely distinct, is also after nature.
And this is what the sages alluded to in the Midrash (Leviticus 21:6); "With this shall Aaron enter the Holy of Holies" (Leviticus 16:3), by virtue of the word, in which it is said (Genesis 17:10) "This is my covenant which you shall keep," Aaron entered the Holy of Holies. And in this light, because it was not fitting for a material son of man to gather in a place that is the Holy of Holies, distinct from the material corporeal, unless there was in man the word that is above nature as well, and by virtue of this he would enter the Holy of Holies, which is a holy place distinct from nature. And therefore in the Holy of Holies were the Ark and the Torah (Exodus 40:20-21), which is intellectual and non-corporeal. And the Torah was also given after the seventh, for it is written (Deuteronomy 16:9) "Seven weeks shalt thou count unto thee," and after seven weeks, on the fiftieth day, the Torah was given. Likewise, the Psalm (Psalms 119:1) "Blessed are those who walk in the right way," was based on the Torah, and goes through the Ten Commandments, as we explained above. And in the Temple itself was the Menorah with seven candles (Exodus 25:37; Ibid. 40:24), but in the Holy of Holies was the Torah and the Ark, which is the light itself. This is why it is called 'Aron' from the word 'Or', since the Torah is light, and it is the eighth, and from there comes the miracle of the eight Chanukah candles. And we have already explained that one small jug remained that was placed in the seal of a High Priest. It is known that a High Priest serves in eight garments (Yoma 51:1), and all this is because of his elevation, which has the eighth degree. And when the Greeks defiled the Temple, and purified it from impurity, and the holiness returned from the eighth degree, and that is why the miracle of eight days was performed.
[Agree with TigerWife. The concept of 8 is intuitive and Kabbalistic, and you don’t need to be chassidish to appreciate it.]
Last edited by self-actualization on Thu, Jan 02 2025, 7:47 am; edited 1 time in total
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amother
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Thu, Jan 02 2025, 7:46 am
| amother Apple wrote: | | What??? Do you not believe in the concept of kedusha? It’s our main tachlis as women to turn chamor matters into kedusha. That’s the essence of lighting shabbos licht, turning the mundane weekday into kedusha of shabbos. An eis ratzon and kedusha is not at all a chassidish concept. It’s literally the basics of Yiddishkeit |
Do litvaks learn chimush?
How do you interpret 'קדושים תהי?
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amother
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Thu, Jan 02 2025, 7:52 am
Before we knock all litvaks lets keep in mind its just a few folks here claiming that title making ignorant comments.
....theres many routes to hkbh. Take the path that gets you there but dont quote it unless you know it well
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amother
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Thu, Jan 02 2025, 7:53 am
| amother Glitter wrote: | Do litvaks learn chimush?
How do you interpret 'קדושים תהי? |
Did you mean to quote me? I agree with you
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tigerwife
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Thu, Jan 02 2025, 7:53 am
| PinkFridge wrote: | | Litvaks know about seven and eight too. Looking at the sources, he draws on (I think) the Rizhiner Rebbe and Rav Yisrael Salanter. |
I know- I heard this on a great shiur on music years ago. wish I can remember which one and who spoke but he wasn’t chassidish.
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Ruchi
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Thu, Jan 02 2025, 8:14 am
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OP, Perhaps you reach out to a Godol, if your Rav doesn't know of a source.
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Hashem_Yaazor
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Thu, Jan 02 2025, 8:16 am
| tigerwife wrote: | This Aish article has a source that Zos Chanuka is the final seal on what is planned for our year (beyond Hoshana Raba):
https://aish.com/final-judgment-on-chanukah/
Additionally, I always learned the following (and I’m having trouble finding this source since it takes me to Teva shoes). Kabbalistic, which a lot of chassidus is based off of:
Each number represents something.
7 is teva, nature. Think, the seven days of the week, the seven musical notes. Patterns in nature often come in sevens.
8 is lmaaleh min hateva- beyond the natural. On this day, you can truly daven for miracles that wouldn’t simply be excused for the natural order of the world. Think of Rubashkin who was basically told his case is closed and the next day (Zos Chanuka) he was freed.
You can say you want straight-forward Halacha and that’s fine. Kabbala is not for everyone. Still doesn’t hurt to daven extra hard today. |
Maharal is the classic source for understanding numbers
Also you can try to Google trying the minus sign teva -shoes
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amother
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Thu, Jan 02 2025, 8:22 am
| amother DarkViolet wrote: | Thank you for saying this so well.
OP is quoting her (I’m sure very special) husband like Torah l’moshe misinai but the words of a rebbe are not ‘sourced’ enough to be emes. |
Huh? I quoted my husband bec he articulated our mehalech better than I can not as a source lol. And yes we don’t just take the words of a rebbe unconditionally as emes. It’s just not a concept for us.
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amother
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Thu, Jan 02 2025, 8:26 am
| Ruchi wrote: | | OP, Perhaps you reach out to a Godol, if your Rav doesn't know of a source. |
My husband actually spoke to his Rebbi. It does seem to be a chassidish concept. For us it’s a day to daven like any day of Chanukah.
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amother
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Thu, Jan 02 2025, 8:41 am
| amother OP wrote: | | Huh? I quoted my husband bec he articulated our mehalech better than I can not as a source lol. And yes we don’t just take the words of a rebbe unconditionally as emes. It’s just not a concept for us. |
So then what is the source of your husband’s words? Why is it not a concept for you?
I’m sorry, but I have met people like this in real life and it really bothers me. A friend of mine once told me that her father believes a rebbe is like avodah zara. I completely understand why he doesn’t understand this concept, as he is a BT with no minhagim or mesorah. But to disparage the avodas Hashem of thousands of people, many of them very learned and wise, because you picked up a mishna berura and it wasn’t there? Do you realize how that sounds?
Just because you have no concept of it does not mean it’s not emes. Please open your mind a little bit and understand that your way is not the emes way to the exclusion of others.
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amother
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Thu, Jan 02 2025, 9:10 am
| amother DarkViolet wrote: | So then what is the source of your husband’s words? Why is it not a concept for you?
I’m sorry, but I have met people like this in real life and it really bothers me. A friend of mine once told me that her father believes a rebbe is like avodah zara. I completely understand why he doesn’t understand this concept, as he is a BT with no minhagim or mesorah. But to disparage the avodas Hashem of thousands of people, many of them very learned and wise, because you picked up a mishna berura and it wasn’t there? Do you realize how that sounds?
Just because you have no concept of it does not mean it’s not emes. Please open your mind a little bit and understand that your way is not the emes way to the exclusion of others. |
His words come from his Rebbeim who follow a mehalech deeply rooted in mesorah. Coming straight from the Torah down to the mishna and to gemorah and to the rishonim etc. etc. I’m sorry this bothers you. But maybe you are the one who needs to open your mind to respect that the concept of a rebbe is relitively new and at the time of its inception chassidus WAS contested by the gedolim of that time. That doesn’t mean I don’t respect you or your way, but you should also respect that there’s another derech that doesn’t agree with taking a rebbes word unconditionally
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amother
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Thu, Jan 02 2025, 9:16 am
| amother OP wrote: | | My husband actually spoke to his Rebbi. It does seem to be a chassidish concept. For us it’s a day to daven like any day of Chanukah. |
Who cares if you daven like any day or like it's a special day?
Tefillah is tefillah. May Hashem answer all our tefillas whether we have sources or not.
We have so much to daven for, getting stuck on the nitty gritty details of sources is a waste of time and energy.
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amother
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Thu, Jan 02 2025, 9:26 am
| amother Glitter wrote: | Who cares if you daven like any day or like it's a special day?
Tefillah is tefillah. May Hashem answer all our tefillas whether we have sources or not.
We have so much to daven for, getting stuck on the nitty gritty details of sources is a waste of time and energy. |
I do hear you. At the same time there’s a concept that it’s very important to differentiate between things that are emes and things that are not. Our yiddishkeit and our very lives are based on the ultimate emes and therefore it’s important not to mix in things that don’t have a basis in Torah. (IM NOT SAYING ZOS CHANUKAH DOESNT HAVE A BASIS it does seem that to chassidim it does) I’m talking IN GENERAL about the idea of oh who cares if it’s sourced or not. It’s a slippery slope to incorporate anything and everything that sounds nice and inspiring. Like I said earlier kavyachol a Christian worship song can be inspiring too. Torah is the only emes
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Simple1
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Thu, Jan 02 2025, 9:27 am
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Whether or not there’s a source wouldn’t bother me. It can’t hurt to daven extra harder.
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amother
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Thu, Jan 02 2025, 9:29 am
| amother OP wrote: | | I do hear you. At the same time there’s a concept that it’s very important to differentiate between things that are emes and things that are not. Our yiddishkeit and our very lives are based on the ultimate emes and therefore it’s important not to mix in things that don’t have a basis in Torah. (IM NOT SAYING ZOS CHANUKAH DOESNT HAVE A BASIS it does seem that to chassidim it does) I’m talking IN GENERAL about the idea of oh who cares if it’s sourced or not. It’s a slippery slope to incorporate anything and everything that sounds nice and inspiring. Like I said earlier kavyachol a Christian worship song can be inspiring too. Torah is the only emes |
A rebbe quoting a previous rebbe who quotes an even earlier gadol is a source.
It's called תורה שבעל פה.
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amother
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Thu, Jan 02 2025, 9:45 am
| amother Glitter wrote: | A rebbe quoting a previous rebbe who quotes an even earlier gadol is a source.
It's called תורה שבעל פה. |
That’s not exactly how Torah Shebaal peh is defined. At least not according to the mesorah I follow. But I recognize we may have different mehalchim
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amother
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Thu, Jan 02 2025, 9:46 am
| amother OP wrote: | | His words come from his Rebbeim who follow a mehalech deeply rooted in mesorah. Coming straight from the Torah down to the mishna and to gemorah and to the rishonim etc. etc. I’m sorry this bothers you. But maybe you are the one who needs to open your mind to respect that the concept of a rebbe is relitively new and at the time of its inception chassidus WAS contested by the gedolim of that time. That doesn’t mean I don’t respect you or your way, but you should also respect that there’s another derech that doesn’t agree with taking a rebbes word unconditionally |
Where was I not respecting your way? I am not the one saying what is emes and what is not. I have not even said what ‘my way’ is throughout this conversation. You are making assumptions.
I am well aware of the history and origins of chassidus but I do not see why your husband’s anonymous rebbeim should be hailed as more valid than well known rebbes. Your way is perfectly acceptable and so are others. I would never be so presumptuous to proclaim what is emes.
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