Kids' stuff: ownership and sharing

amother

↑ Butterscotch

Thu, Nov 14 2024, 12:23 pm

JasmineDragon wrote:

I don't see why an item that belongs to a child (if it's a family item that's different) would ever stop belonging to them without them agreeing that they're done with it. If you want to buy duplos for your children and anyone who wants gets to play with them, no problem. If you say "these are this child's duplos", then they're his until he says otherwise. And if older children are regularly taking a toy away from a younger one, maybe it should be kept in the older child's room. If he remembers it's from his upsherin it's obviously important to him, so don't give it to the toddler.

I recently asked my parents for a children's book that I remember from my childhood and would like for my child now. It was my younger brother's book, really. He's in his 20s now and still wants it. So it's his, and I'll buy a different copy. I don't get to take it away just because he's "too old for it" and I've got a young child.

I feel like I can’t police toys kept in the common area.
If you leave your camera on the couch all week and someone touches it - especially a much younger sibling - it should have been put away if you value it so much. I have a dd who has bags of Lego sets under her bed. No one can touch them As soon as they go in a box in the toy closet it is fair game. Otherwise I have to start keeping track and cheshbon of what belongs to whom and being the police.
Older kids can respect boundaries of asking to use something that belongs to another sibling. Not younger children.
If you like a book so much (and some of my kids do) keep it in your room. As soon as it’s on the family bookshelf I’m not giving permission yes or no you can use it. Im assuming guests in my house will randomly take books to read. Im not giving permission per book based on ownership.
My married sister still has her American girl doll in her dresser drawer. It’s hers. Even though she us married and grown.

↑ JasmineDragon ↓

Thu, Nov 14 2024, 12:37 pm

amother Butterscotch wrote:

I feel like I can’t police toys kept in the common area.
If you leave your camera on the couch all week and someone touches it - especially a much younger sibling - it should have been put away if you value it so much. I have a dd who has bags of Lego sets under her bed. No one can touch them As soon as they go in a box in the toy closet it is fair game. Otherwise I have to start keeping track and cheshbon of what belongs to whom and being the police.
Older kids can respect boundaries of asking to use something that belongs to another sibling. Not younger children.
If you like a book so much (and some of my kids do) keep it in your room. As soon as it’s on the family bookshelf I’m not giving permission yes or no you can use it. I'm assuming guests in my house will randomly take books to read. Im not giving permission per book based on ownership.
My married sister still has her American girl doll in her dresser drawer. It’s hers. Even though she us married and grown.

Are you disagreeing with me? Because I have no problem with what you're describing. You're not taking items away from your children, you're telling them you won't protect their toys for them. It's their responsibility to keep them from being played with, not yours. If it gets mixed in with the shared toys and they want it back, I assume you would let them. It's still theirs.

AlwaysGrateful

Thu, Nov 14 2024, 12:55 pm

I find that the more I protect their need to have things that are uniquely theirs, the more they are willing to share with their siblings.

My two kids who are the most protective over their own stuff, are also so excited to invite their preschool-aged sibling to their room to choose which of those toys to play with. It's great bonding time, and they feel excited to share because it's really theirs and they don't HAVE to.

amother

Latte ↓

Thu, Nov 14 2024, 1:36 pm

amother OP wrote:

So how will they learn to share?

By example!

You can only share something that is yours. Otherwise someone else is letting someone else use it it's not sharing!! shout that from the rooftops!
It needs to be theirs!

Do you have a lot of things off limits in the house? They might be getting that idea from the house
Do they have very little stuff or space that is exclusively theirs? They might be craving ownership of something. It's healthy for them to have a bed and dresser and shelves for themselves and a lot of posessions that are exclusively theirs.

NEVER give one child permission to use something that belongs to another child. It takes away a sense of their self

And yes, I know how hard this is I have a lot of kids close in age all in different environments with different friends so they all get or have different things at different times.

amother

↑ Latte ↓

Thu, Nov 14 2024, 1:40 pm

keym wrote:

The thing is like I said earlier, even books, toys, games that were given as birthday presents, eventually become community owned

I mean the Monopoly game in my closet was given to my 17 year old by his grandmother for Chanukah when he was 8. Should I insist that my now 8 year old call him up in yeshiva to get permission to play with it? The same thing that our box of Duplo Lego was given to that same 17 year old when he was 4.
Does the ownership expire?

This shouldn't be automatic. You can ask him if people need to ask him or not.
Imagine that someone gifted you a house but ten years later they took it back.

amother

↑ Latte ↓

Thu, Nov 14 2024, 1:43 pm

amother Cadetblue wrote:

I think it just goes back to how much value you place in materialism. Sure it’s valuable when it’s new and when it’s being used often. But other than special needs kids which is totally different, a kid shouldn’t be so attached to objects once they aren’t using it as much. And if they are I’d be concerned about self esteem and general middos.

This is 100% false.
Kids and people have an innate desire for posessions and to have things that are "their own".
A child that has a shaky sense of belonging since his belongings are lent out or taken away without his permission is going to become more possesive of things.
Every person and child NEEDS to have posessions. Something that is exclusively THEIRS.
They also need the security of knowing that they'll come home from school and their stuff will be in the same place unused (unless they gave explicit permission before)

amother

↑ OP ↓

Thu, Nov 14 2024, 2:00 pm

amother Latte wrote:

Both can be true.

Kids have an innate need to have things belong just to them, and in large, busy families with small spaces it's possible that not getting this need filled enough will make a kid overly possessive.

At the same time, there are kids in small families with large spaces and pleeenty of things to call their own and they're still very possessive. In such a case it's not an emotional connection or sentimentality or an intrinsic human drive, it's more of a rigidity which yes, can come across as a middos issue.

amother

↑ Cadetblue ↓

Thu, Nov 14 2024, 2:04 pm

Kids have a lot of ownership. The bed they sleep in, the clothing and coat they wear, their school bag, school supplies, items in their room, a few special designated things. If on top of that they need to hold on to every single toy, book and sweater they ever received or used at any point in childhood, you went wrong somewhere.

↑ ittsamother ↓

Thu, Nov 14 2024, 2:57 pm

amother Cadetblue wrote:

But there's a difference between allowing them to willingly "donate to the family pool" items that they're happy to let everyone play with, and forcing them to give up their possessions and gifts by default without any choice in the matter. The first allows them to have the pleasant feeling of being a contributor and a part of the family in a good way, who shares and is shared with on a frequent basis, and the second can make them feel resentful and insecure of their right to own things.

amother

↑ Cadetblue

Thu, Nov 14 2024, 3:01 pm

ittsamother wrote:

I never had an issue with it my kids say of course you can have it I don’t use it anymore when someone does ask, and they are totally fine when it’s just taken too once they age out. I do think how much value you as a parent places on it does affect the household.

amother

Cherry ↓

Thu, Nov 14 2024, 3:06 pm

It's important for kids to have items that are theirs in order to learn about ownership. And they shouldn't be forced to share items that are theirs.
However, you can have rules about what they own. There are also things that belong to them for a limited amount of time-for example, toys or clothes that are for a specific age. And they know these rules in advance
For example, something that they earned is theirs. something they purchase (with permission up to a certain age) is theirs.
Something that they won in a raffle that parents paid for the ticket, is for sharing.
If they leave their belongings in public spaces in the house, a parent can take ownership of it and allow other kids to use it. But other kids can't just take it because it's out.

amother

Almond ↓

Thu, Nov 14 2024, 3:07 pm

amother OP wrote:

So how will they learn to share?

They don't. Sharing is for preschoolers.

Giving Tzedaka, lending a needed object, being reasonable with communal property are for older children and adults.

My stuff is mine. I don't share it with anyone. I might lend it to my sister in need. If I can afford to, I might donate it when I'm done to charity. But nobody has the right to demand I "share" it with them.

I'm a kind, generous person. I'm not a hoarder. I would still be outraged if anybody insisted I have to share my stuff with them.

ETA: I thought it over and I don't think sharing is for preschoolers. Sharing is for shared properly. Preschoolers generally don't have their own stuff so all their toys are shared. For example. When we go to the park, we share the equipment cuz it's for everyone. Same with the road which we also share.

By the time children are 9 or 10, and definitely as they hit bar mitzvah, they are absolutely ready to have their own property, take care of it, and decide who gets to use it.

And I also do share a lot. But I share things that don't matter to me. I might keep some chairs or a swing set outside that I don't care much about and therefore I share it with my neighbors. Things I care about I keep in my house. I keep in good condition and I don't share with the world freely.

amother

↑ Cherry

Thu, Nov 14 2024, 3:08 pm

amother Cadetblue wrote:

Do you consider your kids the owners of their bed, clothing, and school supplies? I don't. They're like renters; it's theirs until it makes more sense for it to be given to the next kid.

↑ chanatron1000

Thu, Nov 14 2024, 3:10 pm

amother Latte wrote:

This shouldn't be automatic. You can ask him if people need to ask him or not.
Imagine that someone gifted you a house but ten years later they took it back.

If someone gave me a house and then took it away, I'd be upset. If they said "Happy birthday, here's shared ownership of a house and a ten year paid off lease on exclusive use," that'd be different.

↑ ittsamother ↓

Thu, Nov 14 2024, 3:12 pm

chanatron1000 wrote:

If someone gave me a house and then took it away, I'd be upset. If they said "Happy birthday, here's shared ownership of a house and a ten year paid off lease on exclusive use," that'd be different.

So when you give the gift, do you make it clear as you give it that you're only giving it to him for x amount of years? And is that clear to them about anything anyone gives them? Do they ever have stuff that there's no expiration date on? Or everything is always only for a certain amount of time?

Genuinely curious about the breakdown here.

Last edited by ittsamother on Thu, Nov 14 2024, 3:12 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Violet

Thu, Nov 14 2024, 3:12 pm

Im going to add that it depends on the family dynamic.

My first was the oldest granddaughter and great-granddaughter.
She got a lot of gifts.

Giftwrapped, love bubby. A stretchy. A crib. A stroller.

Are those hers or the family?

I think that many grandparents give believing that the crib is given by the first so the family has a crib, and the riding toy , is given when the first turns 1 so the family has a riding toy, and the Duplo is given when someone turns 3 so the family has Duplo.

And the same way the changing table isn't hers, the snowsuit isn't hers the basic toys have an expiration date.

amother

↑ Latte ↓

Thu, Nov 14 2024, 3:12 pm

amother OP wrote:

The bolded has nothing to do with it. That's personalities already. I'm talking about an innate need that everyone has and what can exacerbate it.

↑ ittsamother ↓

Thu, Nov 14 2024, 3:13 pm

amother Violet wrote:

I do kind of agree with this to an extent. At what point might this shift to personal gifts actually gifted to the individual themselves?

amother

↑ Latte ↓

Thu, Nov 14 2024, 3:13 pm

chanatron1000 wrote:

If someone gave me a house and then took it away, I'd be upset. If they said "Happy birthday, here's shared ownership of a house and a ten year paid off lease on exclusive use," that'd be different.

Unless your grandparents gave it to you and your parents took it after ten years which is the scenario we are talking about.