Do I need to tip? | Imamother

amother

↑ OP ↓

Tue, Jul 23 2024, 1:46 pm

amother Slateblue wrote:

I think it's fine to tip less than the recommended amount, but not ok to skip altogether. Your oldest is 9. This is not your first time sending to camp. Tips happen every year, this should not be a surprise. When you are signing up for next year, and looking at the prices, just mentally add $200 (or whatever it is you plan to add) and budget according to that.

Yup, totally agree, but have had unexpected expenses come up and am really tight right now.

amother

↑ OP

Tue, Jul 23 2024, 1:49 pm

amother Hotpink wrote:

Can I point out that in addition to the financial cost, it is also takes a significant amount of time to handle tips? First I have to go to the bank to ensure that I have bills in the right denominations (can't give a check for $5!). Then I have to write a thank you note (even one two sentences long) per counselor. One of my kids has five counselors/assistants! Plus all the other kids, plus bus monitors and drivers and I can't remember who else.

When you say that even if I can't tip generously, I should at least write a nice card ... that in itself is a burden. I wish that camps had an option to Zelle.

EXACTLY! I also now need to go get 30 envelopes too, then get exact amount in cash for 30 tips (or however many). And then do the same again at the end of camp. Its also a tircha, not only financially.

amother

Yellow ↓

Tue, Jul 23 2024, 2:03 pm

Every summer this type of thread is opened.

In past years many people on here said oh give a chocolate bar or 5 dollars. That would not fly in my neighborhood. My understanding is this is common in lakewood.

I live 5T. In all large camps there is a tip schedule. It would be considered very rude not to tip in full. If there is an issue with a particular staff, some parents reflect it by giving less than the recommended amount. The large day camp where I work costs about 2800 for the summer. I myself will owe around 500 at the end of the summer for 3 of my children's tips. Parents have to factor that in when signing up for camp. Regardless of what you believe that the camp should pay thier staff more etc., the staff is relying on thier tips.

Op I once had a camper where the parent tipped less (like 1/2) and wrote a really nice card explaining how they wish they could have tipped in full but financially couldn't that summer. My heart went out to the parent and I totally did not mind. The few families that don't tip for no reason given (not my bunk), have a name in camp.

Also most people don't tip midway unless thier kid is leaving. For staff that leave 1/2 way through, the camp takes responsibility of the tip and ensures it gets to the staff who left 1st half. You can just tip everyone end of summer, including 1st month only staff.

No idea how it works outside 5T.

amother

Foxglove ↓

Tue, Jul 23 2024, 2:06 pm

I am not tipping the recommended amount but will give something.

I will say that when I worked as a counselor my mother always had a talk with me to explain that many parents struggle financially and can't afford to tip much, and that it is not the parents' fault that the day camps don't pay well. My mother really inculcated in me a sensitivity regarding this, and to be grateful and gracious for whatever I got.

Those of you whose kids are day camp counselors should do the same. It is widely known that if a teen wants to make a significant amount of money in the summer then they should not be a day camp counselor. There are other opportunities.

amother

↑ Yellow ↓

Tue, Jul 23 2024, 2:07 pm

amother OP wrote:

Just tip everyone at the end. Try to set aside the money now for the second half. If you can't swing it, give a smaller tip and explain you wish you could tip them more but can't right now. Most adult staff and surprisingly teenage staff would be understanding. In the future, the tip should be figured as part of the camp tuition.

Hatzlacha!

amother

↑ Foxglove ↓

Tue, Jul 23 2024, 2:10 pm

amother Yellow wrote:

This whole "the tip should be figured as part of camp tuition" is so tone deaf. What if you just CAN'T? You have no choice to send to day camp because you both work, and maybe the day camp was nice and gave a scholarship or maybe you put it on credit cards
Some people (probably a lot more than you think) really have no breathing space in their budget and cant just factor it in. But they still need to send to day camp so they can work.

amother

↑ Yellow ↓

Tue, Jul 23 2024, 2:20 pm

amother Foxglove wrote:

Im sorry you find this tone deaf. I myself have been in op's shoes and I actually borrowed money to give tips and slowly paid it off. Just like you can't skip on camp tuition, you can't skip on tips. I know someone in NJ where the camp charges more and no tips are expected. Maybe people need to check before they sign thier kids up.
I don't work in camp for fun. I kill myself to give my bunk kids a fun and safe summer. I rely on my own tips to tip my kids staff.
These are things that need to be thought of ahead of signing children up in camp.

amother

↑ Slateblue

Tue, Jul 23 2024, 2:39 pm

Regarding the logistics of tipping: call the camp and ask them to have their staff use venmo/zelle for collecting tips, or even better, that the camp should set it up through the Grazzee website. The camp I send to has been doing venmo and zelle for several years (which is better then cash and envelopes, but can still be annoying because you have to set up each name, make sure you got everyone across the different systems, etc, plus for younger counselors, they need to use their parents' accounts). This year they switched to Grazzee and it was SOOOO easy. The tipping system isn't changing anytime soon unfortunately, but this at least is something that can be easily done and at least takes care of the logistical annoyance.

amother

↑ Foxglove

Tue, Jul 23 2024, 2:47 pm

amother Yellow wrote:

Wow you really are clueless.
I can't borrow money. I'm already thousands of dollars in medical debt and I can't take on more debt.
Also maybe I put the camp payment on credit cards that I have no way of paying and so I'm in debt from that also
I can think about it all I want in advance, it won't make the money appear. My dh works the max possible (literally every day except shabbos/yom tov) and I work close to full time as well

Anyway I said above that I am going to tip but not the recommended amount

amother

Blushpink

Tue, Jul 23 2024, 2:49 pm

amother Foxglove wrote:

Right but if camp just raised the price 150 and didn’t ask for tips. You would still send right? So Let the camps do that and give out the tips on their own like some camps already do

amother

Lavender ↓

Tue, Jul 23 2024, 2:52 pm

amother Blonde wrote:

So you're ok with the fact that the 17 year old counselor who's watching your 5 year old- taking her to the bathroom, tying her shoes, portioning out lunch is getting $600 for 4 weeks. She was told her salary $600+ tips with suggested tips between $15-$25 per camper. But out of the 20 girls in the bunk, she got $40.

You can't tip, even $5. Fine. I get it. Moneys tight by me also. But you don't even think we as a community should be advocating for better pay.

Wow who pays $600? I usually got $200-$300 per half and my sis 10 years younger than me is getting similar.

amother

↑ Banana

Tue, Jul 23 2024, 2:54 pm

amother Lightcyan wrote:

For day camps they are all getting paid and I tend to give $10 as a tip for assistants or counselors in large day camps.

Sleep away I tend to give a little more only because they don't usually get paid at all.

My kid in day camp is not being paid much. She took the job because she needs something to do and she likes kids. But she’s making $200 for the half.

amother

↑ Hawthorn

Tue, Jul 23 2024, 3:02 pm

amother Foxglove wrote:

If camp cost more you would have no choice but to pay it. I see tipping the same way. you have no choice! I really do think if you have no intention of paying the tips it is like stealing. Im sorry for the financial position u r in maybe there are alternative summer arrangements or cheaper camp options.maybe start a go fund me page.

amother

↑ Yellow

Tue, Jul 23 2024, 3:03 pm

amother Foxglove wrote:

So sorry about the medical debt! I personally would totally understand and not mind getting a tip in your specific situation! HaShem should help you get rid of the debt. I will daven for you.
So many hugs! Heart

amother

Diamond ↓

Tue, Jul 23 2024, 3:11 pm

amother Amber wrote:

I don't tip counselors. I usually send a chocolate bar with a thank you card.
That said, $200 per half for 2 kids is a ridiculous amount for tips. The camp should be paying the counselors adequately instead of relying on tips. Camp is expensive enough as is.

I didn't read the whole thread but dd was a counselor in a local daycamp and worked extremely hard for pennies. At the end of the summer she came home with about 20 chocolate bars and less than $10 tips. Since that summer I learnt that it's better to give $5-7-9 cash than chocolate. Chocolate also costs a few dollars and there only so many bars she needs. If she'd get 5$ for each bar she'd at least earn $100 which is beautiful.
That's not too say she didn't appreciate each gesture and each note expressing gratitude. She really did. We know a tip is not mandatory. But if you DO give you should know that even the smallest amount of cash is appreciated and adds up. $200 for 2 kids is way too much.

amother

↑ Diamond ↓

Tue, Jul 23 2024, 3:15 pm

amother OP wrote:

I'm just curious where you get to 30 tips for two kids?
I spend $40 on tips for 2 kids. 2 counselors each so 4 people get $10.

yamz

Tue, Jul 23 2024, 3:28 pm

First let me say that I detest the whole tipping culture in this country. I would strongly prefer if all service providing establishments charged what is necessary up front to pay their workers a fair wage and be done with it. Why are consumers getting nickled and dimed at the end of the transaction? I managed to pay for camp/school/haircut/ restaurant meal, but I'm not really done paying. And why do consumers have to carry the additional mental load of tipping? Furthermore, why should the actual service providers be subject to whims of customers for their pay?

All that said, am I missing something here? Why is it that day camp counselors and junior counselors don't need tips? They are paid laughably small amounts of money in more right wing/yeshivish/chassidish schools. The premise being, that the rest will be made up in tips. However you feel about this payment system, you knew about it when you registered your child for camp. By not tipping, you are taking advantage of the teen counselors doing a largely thankless job - because they have no leverage, no position of power to complain about their pathetic wages from the camp, and they obviously can't force parents to tip.
For their part, camp directors claim they are doing the parents a favor by hiring their children so the parents don't have to pay for sleep away camp. They refuse to recognize the exploitation of child labor.
Lastly, teens don't have many available job opportunities. So unlike a waiter or a teacher or a hairdresser, they didn't exactly "choose" the counselor job. One cannot justify not tipping by saying these kids should have chosen something different, it's not my problem that this is the job they chose to do. That attitude just feeds into the exploitation.

I too have several children attending camps and do not have extra money for tips, but I view the minimum tip as mandatory - particularly in a day camp setting, where counselors really are teens and are not at least enjoying the benefits of sleep away camp grounds.