Withholding a diploma if tuition isn't settled

amother

Pearl ↓

Thu, Jul 04 2024, 8:11 am

amother Peachpuff wrote:

Of course I do and I always pay whatever amount was agreed on, on time.
To our myself from where I am.
But here the school called parents 2 days before pesach to let them know that suddenly they aren’t chassidish enough for the school anymore and either they change schools or their kid will be put into a class labeled modern kids class.
So since I wasn’t going to have my kids called modern I had to suddenly change them for the next year. I had a destroyed yom tov. The school actually hired random people to make these phone calls and let us know this…
And no I was never considered modern in this school and am still not in the very heimish schools I send to now.
And I don’t feel bad since I was actually told by someone in the school that they charge tuition in preschool even though they also ask us to sign for headstart… and they use that extra so they can charge less money in the older years and I had kids in/just finished preschool.

I thought I knew which school you were talking about and as soon as you said modern class I knew. No they don't deserve a penny. And you should know that your lucky to not send there. It's sad the way it happened and I can't imagine the trauma the kids must have gone through changing schools and everything but know I went to that place the abuse that goes on there It's not normal.
Real emotional abuse.

amother

↑ Celeste ↓

Thu, Jul 04 2024, 8:38 am

amother Pearl wrote:

It sounds like an awful school just curious did anyone ask a sheila before not paying? Stealing is not someone to be taken lightly. Two wrongs dont make a right

amother

Clematis

Thu, Jul 04 2024, 10:01 am

amother Peachpuff wrote:

I was basically kicked out of a school due to chassidish politics and my dd never got her 8th grade diploma cuz we refused to pay the last few months.
I felt bad but the diploma wasn’t worth $3,000 (what we owed for multiple kids)

Most schools have you sign a tuition contract. Did you sign? Because if you did you owe them the money. It doesn't matter what your excuse was and if you were or weren't happy with their service.

Tuition is very low in chassidish schools, so most chassidish schools even if you have headstart will charge you tuition. It's your choice if you want to send or not, nobody is forcing you. We all rationalize its ok, but stealing is stealing.

happyness

Thu, Jul 04 2024, 10:04 am

Just want to comment on the Headstart topic and not paying tuition.

It’s a real question for a rav if one is stealing by not paying tuition in a Headstart class

The schools are outright unethical by charging tuition for students in upk and Headstart classes. They make a ton of money per child. I don’t really care what their reasoning is as to why they need more money.

It’s not so simple.

If only one parent reported this…

amother

Ecru

Thu, Jul 04 2024, 10:29 am

I was in the position of not being able to pay tuition in full and the school withheld my kids' transcripts/diploma. I had paid what I could throughout school, which was half of what I owed for multiple children. I spoke to them and they refused to settle for less than I owed, and they wanted half of it immediately with a payment plan for the rest. I was borrowing money to pay for basic expenses, and I had no way of getting them so much money immediately.

So my oldest went to seminary and almost didn't get FAFSA. BH I managed to bargain the high school down just in the nick of time.

I understand they need the money, but I made it clear I didn't have it right then. I do think it was mean to withhold the diploma for my oldest, especially since I still had other kids they could have used as leverage. There has to be an understanding that some families can't afford food, gas, or diapers and it's unfair to demand thousands of dollars immediately.

amother

Cadetblue

Thu, Jul 04 2024, 10:39 am

amother Ecru wrote:

I'm slightly confused. If you were struggling to pay basic expenses like food, where was the money for seminary coming from?

amother

Hyssop ↓

Thu, Jul 04 2024, 10:47 am

amother Cadetblue wrote:

I'm slightly confused. If you were struggling to pay basic expenses like food, where was the money for seminary coming from?

Probably the same place where she was paying tuition for her other children from.

For some families, seminary is a chinuch expense like any other.

For me, I was paying DS's tuition little by little over time. They didn't release his diploma until we finished paying 2 years later. They were nice about it though, not nasty. (I can't make payment plans because we don't have a fixed income.)

keym ↓

Thu, Jul 04 2024, 11:10 am

amother Cadetblue wrote:

I'm slightly confused. If you were struggling to pay basic expenses like food, where was the money for seminary coming from?

Not that poster.
But my daughter has a few friends who worked Sundays, evenings, summers all through high school to earn to pay for seminary, expenses, and flights whatever FAFSA doesn't cover.
If a girl works and earns 25k, and with an additional 10k from FAFSA can cover her dream of seminary in EY. But her parents can't afford to pay tuition so she loses FAFSA because the diploma wasn't released and now she can't go at all.

amother

↑ Cyclamen ↓

Thu, Jul 04 2024, 11:22 am

amother Cadetblue wrote:

I'm slightly confused. If you were struggling to pay basic expenses like food, where was the money for seminary coming from?

For many of us, seminary is just as much an expense as tuition. Where was the tuition money supposed to come from?

amother

↑ Copper

Thu, Jul 04 2024, 11:25 am

amother Cyclamen wrote:

What's does "organized religion" mean? As opposed to not organized religion?

Why would my high school administrators represent G-d? Last time I checked we only worship one G-d and the high school administrator isn't it.

I understand that she went through a difficult time, and a lot of bad things happened to her. Pinpointing her going OTD on this one thing is bizarre.

(Btw I also had some stuff going on at the time, actually).

None of us could know why. Plus is off topic. But in short, if she was struggling, tried her best, and the religious institution she was close to turned their back on her- it is reasonable to react against that institution.
Of course we only have 1 HKBH. But if the schools say "we are following God" and "this is what religion is" then when they turn their back on her what message does that send?

amother

Apple ↓

Thu, Jul 04 2024, 11:34 am

amother Eggshell wrote:

did you read? She said she was kicked out because mid year they decided she wasnt frum enough.

They weren't kicked out. The school wanted to switch the kids to a different class which may have been more suitable for the kids, and the mom refused the switch.

amother

↑ Apple ↓

Thu, Jul 04 2024, 11:37 am

amother Eggshell wrote:

uh no thats not how it works. switching a kid midyear to the "bad" class because they decide you arent frum enough means you dont get your money. you dont get to treat a family like trash and then expect payment.

and the whole headstart/tuition thing is outright stealing so they have no moral high ground here.

Or it means that they were toeing the line in school and the school thought it would be suitable to switch the kids class.
(Though I don't know any chassidish schools that have a regular class & a modern class. That's just bizarre.)

amother

↑ Apple

Thu, Jul 04 2024, 11:39 am

happyness wrote:

Not all pre schools are under headstart.

amother

↑ Celeste ↓

Thu, Jul 04 2024, 1:58 pm

amother Cyclamen wrote:

For many of us, seminary is just as much an expense as tuition. Where was the tuition money supposed to come from?

No just no. If you cant afford to pay your bills seminary is not an option. Why should schools foot your bill where is your responsibility? I am just in shock by people’s attitude on this thread. Such a sense of entitlement.

amother

Forsythia

Thu, Jul 04 2024, 3:16 pm

This happened to me. My parents didn't finish paying tuition and I never got my diploma. I didn't really care, I knew I graduated. What was funny was that 15 years later the school called me to try and settle the rest, and of course I felt bad that it was still not paid...wasn't ok, and I settled with them. Then I got my diploma in the mail...15 years later and my husband and I just laughed and made a whole joke about how I just graduated high school.

amother

↑ Hyssop ↓

Thu, Jul 04 2024, 4:25 pm

amother Celeste wrote:

Would you not send your child to high school if you still owed money to the elementary school?

For some families or communities, seminary is equivalent to 13th grade, not a bonus or discretionary year. Not going to seminary is viewed as the equivalent of dropping out of school when turning 18.

FTR there are more and less expensive seminaries. And also FYI there are parents who will continue paying schools well after their child graduates. (My parents did, and I am doing that too. With or without the threat of holding onto transcripts.)

amother

↑ Cyclamen ↓

Thu, Jul 04 2024, 4:28 pm

amother Celeste wrote:

So the student shouldn't go on to 12th grade if they still owe tuition for 11th grade?

There's no difference, your comment makes no sense.

In general, yes, we do have a sense of entitlement that we expect the community to make sure every Jewish child is educated. Bh this is (almost always) what happens.

amother

Mimosa ↓

Thu, Jul 04 2024, 4:35 pm

keym wrote:

A girl usually can't earn 25K in 4 years of HS by working summers, Sundays, and evenings. How much can they get paid already? Summers are the main income.
Camps pay pennies, youth corp now is only from 16 and it's about $2,400 for the summer.

amother

↑ Mimosa ↓

Thu, Jul 04 2024, 4:37 pm

amother Cyclamen wrote:

For many of us, seminary is just as much an expense as tuition. Where was the tuition money supposed to come from?

That poster said she was paying half of tuition, that's why the school was withholding diploma. No such thing as paying half tuition to seminary.

amother

↑ Mimosa ↓

Thu, Jul 04 2024, 4:41 pm

amother Hyssop wrote:

So is a seminary valuable experience where girls mature and become independent or it's 13th grade? I happen to agree with the latter, but that's not what Imas say here when debating pros and cons of going to seminary