Withholding a diploma if tuition isn't settled

↑ chestnut

Wed, Jul 03 2024, 10:15 pm

amother Amber wrote:

Colleges require full payment when you enroll each semester and if your check bounces, you can't go to class - or receive credit for the class although I would imagine you could physically go to a large lecture class without paying.

Don't seminaries require payment in full when you start?

Seminaries, no. You pay in installments.

amother

Honey ↓

Wed, Jul 03 2024, 10:16 pm

amother OP wrote:

But a parent who just doesn't have the money but without the diploma or official transcript, the child will lose FAFSA and other aid can lose all funding for seminary/college. (For this conversation, let's assume that the child saved up to pay for all the seminary that's not being covered by FAFSA).
That's a real loss to the child all because her parents can't or won't pay the remaining tuition.

That should be an incentive for the parents to have a conversation with the school, shouldn’t it?

amother

↑ Amber ↓

Wed, Jul 03 2024, 10:18 pm

amother Eggshell wrote:

did you read? She said she was kicked out because mid year they decided she wasnt frum enough.

Actually you should read

She wasn't kicked out but was told that her children would be placed in the "modern class" the next year.

She finished out the year but switched them.

She didn't take them out of the class and the school didn't kick them out.

The school was ridiculous in terms of having this policy and essentially making a class of lepers but the poster did send her kids for the entire year and didn't pay.

amother

↑ Honey

Wed, Jul 03 2024, 10:21 pm

amother Amber wrote:

She did pay. The school took her head start money and also made her pay, and said it would subsidize the following years. Then told her that she’s not welcome for the following years.

How are they even allowed to charge twice? It sounds like the school was stealing not that poster.

But anyway, you’re off topic.

amother

Tomato

Wed, Jul 03 2024, 10:25 pm

I know someone who went to a school that no longer exists that used this as an excuse not to give her a diploma. The parents did pay, and the moment the last check cleared the school stopped returning the family's calls. They decided they didn't want to give her her diploma because she missed so much class for medical reasons (she made up all the work in the hospital). It screwed over years of her life and is a major reason she's no longer frum and is married to a non Jew

amother

Cyclamen ↓

Wed, Jul 03 2024, 10:29 pm

amother Tomato wrote:

Um... I never got my diploma either. Its inconvenient but it didn't screw up years of my life - that does not make sense. There's another reason she's no longer frum and married to a non Jew... that ain't it.

amother

↑ Celeste ↓

Wed, Jul 03 2024, 10:31 pm

amother Tomato wrote:

Sounds like there is a lot more to this story

amother

↑ Eggshell

Wed, Jul 03 2024, 10:34 pm

amother Amber wrote:

uh no thats not how it works. switching a kid midyear to the "bad" class because they decide you arent frum enough means you dont get your money. you dont get to treat a family like trash and then expect payment.

and the whole headstart/tuition thing is outright stealing so they have no moral high ground here.

amother

↑ Amber

Wed, Jul 03 2024, 10:57 pm

amother Eggshell wrote:

So since I wasn’t going to have my kids called modern I had to suddenly change them for the next year.

I think a reasonable interpretation is that she changed them the next year so presumably they weren’t switched mid year nir did she withdraw them.

If I am wrong, the poster should clarify whether she finished the school year and just didn’t pay for the last months.

Are there even diplomas and transcripts for pre school as I really don’t understand how headstaer funds suddenly came into play. 🤷‍♀️

amother

Tangerine

Wed, Jul 03 2024, 11:09 pm

amother OP wrote:

It's a real loss to the school that tuition isn't paid. Why is the school's loss not a factor? Why is only the student the "oppressed" one?

amother

↑ Peachpuff

Thu, Jul 04 2024, 4:10 am

amother Amber wrote:

Sorry op for making this thread go off topic but just to answer yes my kids finished cuz I didn’t have where to change them from after pesach until the end of the year. And no I wasn’t giving money to a place that caused us a horrible pesach by making us think our kids would be tortured that year and then changing to say it’s for next year. Children should not be played with , that’s not good chinuch. Up until that point for many years we were always fully paid up tuition. And also since then we always pay on time.

Comptroller ↓

Thu, Jul 04 2024, 6:21 am

amother Celeste wrote:

I dont care what your issues are with a school, you sent there you pay. Period. You dont like something the school does you pull your kid out. What kind of chutzpah to send and not pay. Did you ask a sheila? How is this not stealing ?!

If the school forces you out, it is reasonable not to pay when the child doesn't go, since it is not you who made the choice. Plus you have to pay the new school. In this case the school should not ask for tuition.

On the other hand, I can't see how the school would deliver the diploma if the student did not attend until the end of the school year (and probably not pass the necessary exams).

This tale is a bit confusing because Peachpuff is switching between "I" and "DD", so it is not clear what happened to her and what happened to her daughter.

↑ Comptroller

Thu, Jul 04 2024, 6:57 am

amother Cyclamen wrote:

You should consider the possibility that different people react differently in similar circumstances.

The fact that it did not make you go OTD is no proof that nobody will go OTD in such circumstances.
Or maybe the circumanstances were not that similar, because you did not have the disease/medical aspect.

amother

Copper ↓

Thu, Jul 04 2024, 10:26 am

amother Peachpuff wrote:

The head start issue is a different an unrelated issue. When they asked you to pay at the beginning you could have refused. You could have asked a shaila about what to do.
At the end when you didn't want to pay because of the way they treated you and your kids-- you had a choice. You can pull your kids out and work something out about payment (my kids school says if we choose to pull out we owe the current month) or continue to send and pay what you owe.

It's like buying shoes, using it for a few months with daily wear, and then trying to get a refund. Or maybe better yet-paying for those shoes on a payment plan and then refusing to pay the last payment. Would you eat a meal at a restaurant, only pay half and say "they got enough money. I felt the meal was only worth X amount..." ??

And this is why the schools can't meet payroll. Can't give scholarships when parents lose their job. Make tuition increase for everyone (both to make up for the loss and to hedge against this happening again).

amother

↑ Copper ↓

Thu, Jul 04 2024, 10:29 am

amother Cyclamen wrote:

It could if she felt the school (which to a teen is a major component in frum life) turned their back on her. She was sick. She made up the work. They still didn't give a diploma? She was likely at a low point in her life (being ill, likely isolated due to illness...) and then the big religious institution which may be the biggest frum organization in her life, representing organized religion--- turned their back.

amother

↑ Cyclamen ↓

Thu, Jul 04 2024, 10:35 am

amother Copper wrote:

What's does "organized religion" mean? As opposed to not organized religion?

Why would my high school administrators represent G-d? Last time I checked we only worship one G-d and the high school administrator isn't it.

I understand that she went through a difficult time, and a lot of bad things happened to her. Pinpointing her going OTD on this one thing is bizarre.

(Btw I also had some stuff going on at the time, actually).

amother

↑ Cyclamen ↓

Thu, Jul 04 2024, 10:37 am

Comptroller wrote:

Maybe. But the "screwed up her life for years" is what I have issue with. It's not that big a deal to get a GED. You can go through any adult college or community college that doesn't require a diploma and transfer. It doesn't screw your life.

amother

Lawngreen

Thu, Jul 04 2024, 10:59 am

amother Cyclamen wrote:

Dh’s HS wouldn’t give him a diploma and it was a big deal. At that stage he probably could have passed the GED but he didn’t think there was anything wrong with not having a diploma. By the time I realized he didn’t have one and he reached the point of considering what to do with his life. he had been out of school so long that passing the GED would be a real challenge since he hadn’t touched anything secular in many years. And yes he could get into college without it but he’s not entitled to any scholarships or grants without it.

amother

↑ Cyclamen ↓

Thu, Jul 04 2024, 11:01 am

amother Lawngreen wrote:

I got FAFSA and scholarships.

And "a big deal" is not the same as screwing up years of your life.

Like I said, its inconvenient. But you can take a GED preparation course either online or in person and take the GED.