Does your husband potch?

↑ Chayalle ↓

Tue, Mar 22 2022, 12:30 pm

amother [ Springgreen ] wrote:

My father potched us each once for stepping one foot into the street (yes we were being watched) at not even 2 years old and we never tried again. I can't imagine we are very scarred from it.

the ends just doesn't justify the means for me. I just can't see how it's appropriate to potch a child under 2 years old and consider that to be a proper form of parenting.

A child under 2 should be watched by the parent(s) and not be near the street.

amother

↑ Springgreen ↓

Tue, Mar 22 2022, 12:35 pm

Chayalle wrote:

I hear, no use arguing we're not going to agree.

(Just want to add my parents are beyond incredible parents and only do this with daas Torah. Being that we follow the same Rabbanim/Shittas as they do we will probably do the same for our children. If you were told otherwise for sure don't do it!)

amother

Poinsettia ↓

Tue, Mar 22 2022, 12:44 pm

tweety1 wrote:

I'll bite. Potching will NOT damage your child. And if you claim it did then there are alot more serious issues going on. Alot more than the potch. Talk about the generation we live in. Oh, my mother potched me that's why xyz....

If parents feel the need to potch, it means they have zero parenting tools at their disposal.
This means that there is already a whole lot going on.

amother

↑ Poinsettia ↓

Tue, Mar 22 2022, 12:49 pm

amother [ Springgreen ] wrote:

You don't think there is any other method available to teach a child about danger?

amother

↑ Poinsettia ↓

Tue, Mar 22 2022, 12:52 pm

amother [ Sand ] wrote:

Look this thread will be too triggering for me so I'll just post and then probably not come back. My house used to have a lot of horrible petch that I can't even think about without getting sick. I made many changes and I have not hit my children. Thinking about hitting them makes me feel sick and I can't see how someone who respects a child can do that. However, I have had rabonim put me in my place and clarified that anyone who says hitting children is never ok is wrong. Those ideas come from the internet and the non jews or wherever else.
Of course, most of the people hitting today do not mean Hashem when they do and at least in my life when people do they always cross into abuse. So those people should not be hitting. But hitting your children the right way and your children knowing about petch is torahdig. I can't tell you what that way is because I don't know, but don't black and white it for everyone because it exists in our Torah.
But for the sake of Jewish children whose parents are probably not oisgearbet enough there is a better way than petch.

In 2022 there is no human holy enough to give the toradige kind of petch.
This means that a 2022 potch is not torahdig.

↑ Chayalle ↓

Tue, Mar 22 2022, 1:09 pm

amother [ Springgreen ] wrote:

I don't view people thru the narrow lens of, did they ever give a potch or not. Like I posted, I have seen much worse. I still view the potch as a negative action. That doesn't mean your parents are bad parents, and I respect Daas Torah (though the Daas Torah I follow does not recommend potching.) I think a comprehensive viewpoint of parenting as a whole is needed, and if in all other respects they gave their kids the love, confidence, balance they need, then obviously they did a good job.

I would add that I have also seen where once the potching begins, it doesn't always stop where it should. The first one might be given for running in the street. The second is given when running the parents ragged. Like marijuana being a gateway drug, the less evil side of potching can be a gateway to parenting that is inappropriate and in some cases, abusive.

ETA I also want to add that some children are supersensitive, and even that little potch can do far more damage. Chanoch L'naar al pi darko always applies. For myself, I'm so grateful to have learned better methods because I have a child who falls into this category.

So I'm not arguing on the quality of parents you have - if you say they are incredible, ashrecha that you grew up with them as parents and ashreichem that they raised children like you. I'm glad that they were able to stop where they should, and even when they potched, it was not overdone.

I am still going to say no to the potching, with all due respect.

amother

Gardenia

Tue, Mar 22 2022, 1:13 pm

I don't think that a small painless potch will affect a child, but in almost all cases there are other parenting methods available which might require more effort on the part of the parent but are just as effective and probably more effective.
I think potching is a harmful habit for the parent to get used too it can lead to worse so better to stay far away from any kind of potching.

amother

↑ Springgreen

Tue, Mar 22 2022, 1:17 pm

amother [ Poinsettia ] wrote:

You don't think there is any other method available to teach a child about danger?

I do. I just haven't seen them be too effective. As a kid/teenager I'd watch mothers chasing their toddlers away from the street all day. They'd preach and preach to their 3 year olds as if it would do anything. It never did. I felt bad for the kids, for the mothers. I remember always being so grateful to my parents from the time I was very young. It was so ingrained in us from one light potch how off limits the street was.

My parents potched a total 10 times. One for each of us in all of our childhoods. It did not at all define their parenting.

keym

Tue, Mar 22 2022, 1:26 pm

amother [ Springgreen ] wrote:

That says more about the personality of the child than the discipline method of the adult.
Truly.
Because I thought like this also. Until I met my "bedavka lehachis defiant" kid. I gave a light potch, he looked me in the eye and deliberately walked into the street.
So what? I should smack him again? Beat him harder?

That's when I learned that my kids who one small potch prevented them from NEVER EVER going in the street, likely would have learned the same lesson using other methods.

And some kids don't become obedient from gentle and respectful methods but they wouldn't become obedient from potching either.

↑ BrisketBoss

Tue, Mar 22 2022, 1:55 pm

amother [ Springgreen ] wrote:

Of course lectures don't work. There's another method besides potching. Bring the child inside and let them try again later. Increasingly longer intervals. Five minutes, a day...

#BestBubby

Tue, Mar 22 2022, 2:21 pm

amother [ DarkCyan ] wrote:

Potching a kid who runs into the street is a fair exception. It's also okay to potch an adult who runs into the street.

1. The Torah permits parents and teachers to potch - but not older children.
Certainly can't hit strange adults.

2. Reason potch little kids for running in street is too young to understand warnings
of danger, but for most (not all) potch does work to stop kids from running in street again.

Adults/older kids more effective to use reason/logic. any case cant hit adults

↑ Chayalle ↓

Tue, Mar 22 2022, 2:48 pm

BrisketBoss wrote:

Of course lectures don't work. There's another method besides potching. Bring the child inside and let them try again later. Increasingly longer intervals. Five minutes, a day...

This.

I've seen my sister take my nephew (aged 4) inside when he is not behaving outside. Whether it's running in the street, or not being particularly nice to the neighbors....

I think it's pretty effective. For the most part, a warning that "we will have to go in" works....

Of course, following thru with this as necessary is harder for the parent (who is also enjoying the outdoors) than an easy potch.

amother

Firebrick ↓

Tue, Mar 22 2022, 3:08 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

The Torah also permitted stoning a disobedient child to death. I don’t think the same applies today.

amother

↑ Firebrick

Tue, Mar 22 2022, 3:16 pm

Like someone said I believe being hit is humiliating and degrading (and animal like).
The child very likely experiences silent thoughts of revenge.

I have occasionally potched my child and it has always come from frustration or anger. Not from an intentional or clear mind.

I always made a point to apologize to my child right away and explain that I have done it because I got angry and it was wrong.

↑ Chayalle

Tue, Mar 22 2022, 3:19 pm

amother [ Firebrick ] wrote:

The Torah also permitted stoning a disobedient child to death. I don’t think the same applies today.

And there's tons of meforshim on the topic, the most powerful of which is that a Ben Sorer Umoreh never happened. So it never really applied.

I've never heard it said that we are supposed to come close to any such stoning with regard to our children. Ch'v.

We do see tons of examples of positivity with regard to Chinuch. Yaakov Avinu not giving mussar to Reuvain, Shimon and Levi, etc...till right before his Petirah, knowing that until then it would not be appropriate for them.

amother

Tiffanyblue

Tue, Mar 22 2022, 6:38 pm

amother [ Sand ] wrote:

No. It. Doesn’t.
I don’t know who your Rabbanim are but Rav Yaakov Kaminetsky knew about what’s Torahdig.
Rav Wolbe also knew.
So does Rav Mattisyahu Salamon.

Are you referring to חושך שבטו שונא בנו?
The non Jews translate it as Spare the rod spoil the child but our meforshim translate it as שבט לשונו which means mussar.
Chinuch does not need to be violent.

amother

↑ DarkCyan

Tue, Mar 22 2022, 6:41 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

The reason to potch people who run into the street is pikuach nefesh.