Camp Malka delay | Imamother

amother

↑ Blonde

Fri, Jul 12 2024, 3:57 pm

Anyone knows how the TCs and CITs are doing? Haven't heard from my daughter all day and I'm concerned. Do they have food for Shabbos? Are there even cooking facilities available on the new grounds? Does everyone have their luggage? Because as of this morning they didn't all have...

amother

↑ Cantaloupe ↓

Fri, Jul 12 2024, 3:59 pm

amother Blonde wrote:

Last I heard they were bringing the last truck of remaining items and luggage. They had shabbos food prepared and almost all the showers were ready with plumbers finishing the last few.

amother

↑ Begonia ↓

Fri, Jul 12 2024, 4:03 pm

amother Cantaloupe wrote:

Last I heard they were bringing the last truck of remaining items and luggage. They had shabbos food prepared and almost all the showers were ready with plumbers finishing the last few.

Not everyone has luggage because some got mixed up and sent home with the younger girls. One luggage truck overturned in a ditch on campus, there is a special parent arranging a truck to go to campus Sunday and bring home luggage for girls that were sent home without it . Cits and tcs hanging around campus today, had breakfast and lunch . Supposedly there is food. Till now a lot of girls had phones but they have to give them in soon

↑ ra_mom

Fri, Jul 12 2024, 4:12 pm

amother Hotpink wrote:

https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/general/2296700/mailbag-shame-on-everyone-who-gossiped-about-camp-malkas-struggles.html

They crack me up.
Shame on them for announcing to those who didn't know yesterday.
And then coming back today on their high horse, condemning those who then spoke about what they themselves announced with their juicy tabloid heading "CAMP DRAMA" (caps are verbatim from Yeshiva World's own article).

Last edited by ra_mom on Fri, Jul 12 2024, 4:15 pm; edited 1 time in total

mummiedearest ↓

Fri, Jul 12 2024, 4:14 pm

amother Cantaloupe wrote:

He has no relation to camp! He is the one who ran to help and did whatever he can as outsider. Why should he apologize it’s not his camp.

I have no connection to this story. It sounds like this man really put in effort to help, and I love to hear that there are people who will do such things.

I disagree with him on a couple of points. No one deserves a second chance when it comes to our children. There SHOULD BE zero tolerance. Our job is not to tolerate this kind of thing.

As for the misinformation and staff not eating or sleeping for 48 hours, that just means someone at the top is not good at managing/prioritizing. We should not applaud staffers being mistreated.

And yes, there will always be those who are gleefully gossiping. Those are not parents who are sick with worry about their kids.

Information should be public. No one should trust the current management with their children. The Halacha re: Shmiras halashon when told that someone presents a danger to you is that you take every precaution while giving the benefit of the doubt. So people should be warned that whoever is running this circus should not be trusted with children in the future because it’s possible that they will open a new camp with a different name to avoid scandal. Be aware of where you send your kids. Other camps should take note and make sure communication with parents is excellent. I suspect this camp won’t survive this experience.

amother

↑ Charcoal ↓

Fri, Jul 12 2024, 4:17 pm

amother Begonia wrote:

Yes Tuesday night was Before the campers showed up. I was talking about Wednesday and Thursday. Whatever I don’t want to get into it. But it’s bad

Ur right, sorry I meant Wednesday. We live far from the camp my daughter left home Tuesday and slept over in the Catskills on Tuesday night. It’s hard to keep track of the days lol.

amother

↑ Kiwi ↓

Fri, Jul 12 2024, 4:51 pm

giftedmom wrote:

So he’s blaming WhatsApp groups for his mess-up instead of taking ownership? He’s a victim now? How very typical.

This is the problem. It's so awful that people don't realize the damage that social media creates. He's not addressing what did or didn't happen. He specifically says he's not justifying what certain people did. He's discussing how quick we are to judge, speak lashon hara, and have no mercy for the reputation of other people. And we don't even know the full story!
People grabbed, with both hands, the opportunity to shame, gossip, and malign good people. And it was done with such excitement! Terrifying.

amother

↑ Kiwi ↓

Fri, Jul 12 2024, 4:54 pm

mummiedearest wrote:

Information should be public. No one should trust the current management with their children. The Halacha re: Shmiras halashon when told that someone presents a danger to you is that you take every precaution while giving the benefit of the doubt. So people should be warned that whoever is running this circus should not be trusted with children in the future because it’s possible that they will open a new camp with a different name to avoid scandal. Be aware of where you send your kids. Other camps should take note and make sure communication with parents is excellent. I suspect this camp won’t survive this experience.

Are you aware of the full story? You can choose not to send your girls to this camp based on gossip. I hope you never encounter a situation where assumptions were made about you and stories went viral about your family. Yes, information should be public to those that it's relevant. NOT to the whole gossiping world.
FYI: I have no connection at all to the camp. I am looking at this story as a complete outsider and I'm ashamed to be part of people who are so quick to malign and judge.

↑ mummiedearest ↓

Fri, Jul 12 2024, 5:03 pm

amother Kiwi wrote:

That’s exactly it: halachically, if we are warned that someone will do is harm, we have to act to protect ourselves. Have to. Are required to. At the same time, we are to give the person spoken about the benefit of the doubt in our minds. I assume whoever was responsible meant well. I am obligated to assume that. I also know that halachically, I must keep my children from this person’s care because it is clear that children were harmed by this experience. No assumptions about any specific person or his/her family. I wish them all well. Truly. But anyone who wouldn’t consider this experience when vetting camps in the future would be negligent.

That is aside from all the usual tragedy vultures who are gleeful to discuss everything in gory detail. Those people are a symptom of a separate issue. Being told that we should see the positive in this or give someone a second chance is a symptom of a certain societal naïveté the frum world seems to cling to. We can acknowledge people’s positive contributions to a very difficult challenge while acknowledging that we need to be careful in the future.

amother

↑ Kiwi ↓

Fri, Jul 12 2024, 5:08 pm

mummiedearest wrote:

Halachah does not include you writing this on a public forum. Decide in the privacy of your own home what you will and won't do. The fact that you are mentioning it on a public forum is planting the idea in other people's head, too, which halacha does not condone. The rules of toeles are very complicated.

↑ mummiedearest ↓

Fri, Jul 12 2024, 5:17 pm

amother Kiwi wrote:

A) The story is already very public
B) the level of publicity would already constitute a warning
C) if my claim is in doubt, I would venture to say that a shaila should be asked about whether one CAN choose to send rather than the other way around.

amother

↑ Kiwi ↓

Fri, Jul 12 2024, 5:22 pm

mummiedearest wrote:

If you read sefer chofetz chaim, you'll see that A and B are not factors when it comes to loshon hara. It is still assur to repeat public information.

↑ mummiedearest

Fri, Jul 12 2024, 5:38 pm

amother Kiwi wrote:

If you read sefer chofetz chaim, you'll see that A and B are not factors when it comes to loshon hara. It is still assur to repeat public information.

Are you repeating public info by reposting my posts?

I understand that this is a shocking subject and that people’s emotions are high. I am interested in the halachic outlook on this. Given that things are now public knowledge and that anyone who has kids to send to camp has potential relevance, I think a discussion would be prudent.

If we are worried about families of people involved and the negative impact they will experience, it would be great to see some kind of emotional support organized once all the kids are taken care of. In this kind of situation, the kids must come first. This has to be done without vilifying family members who take part in discussion groups. There are ways to settle this with the right leadership.

amother

↑ Kiwi

Fri, Jul 12 2024, 5:47 pm

mummiedearest wrote:

Are you repeating public info by reposting my posts?

You're right. I probably am. Thank you for making me aware. I'm not going to write any more about this topic. I thought I would bring awareness to people who are so freely spreading loshon hara and judgement, but people don't like to be told they're wrong.

amother

↑ Cantaloupe ↓

Fri, Jul 12 2024, 5:50 pm

amother Kiwi wrote:

If you read sefer chofetz chaim, you'll see that A and B are not factors when it comes to loshon hara. It is still assur to repeat public information.

There are 3 people involved in lashon hara, the one who did the bad thing gets punished too. Why don’t we ever talk about that. I feel like lashon hara is a thing we pick and choose about and maybe it makes us feel good to yell it out. I find that in most cases it’s not even done correctly halachically and it’s more of a I’m the good person in the room.