I am very curious about not making aliyah

shabbatiscoming

Sun, Jun 23 2024, 10:00 am

amother Babypink wrote:

I’ve never spent a lot of time in RBS but from my experience meeting American-Israeli girls from RBS in camp/seminary many came from more MO American backgrounds or just not typical yeshivish American backgrounds. They came from families that were more out of town, were not raised “sheltered” in America like the more yeshivish communities. Most had parents who were professionals, many of them doctors, which is very rare in communities like Lakewood. Most were very “normal” there was nothing wrong with them obviously! But in general yeshivish people are not raised with a strong idealism for making Aliyah so when someone does there’s generally a strong motivator for it that is not simply “love for Israel”.

I only got to know the girls themselves not the parents who actually made Aliyah so I can’t definitively tell you what their parents motivation was. But from the adults who I DO personally know who made Aliyah, I already described the categories they fall into.

BTW I forgot to add, BT is another category of people more likely to make Aliyah. Becoming a BT is a radical act just like making Aliyah is so it makes sense they’d go hand in hand. It takes a certain personality type to do both acts.

So my experience of the anglo charedi community in rbs is not of the girls but of the husband and wife and the family. I dont know MO people in RBS. Most dont stay there. Its really yeshivish, blatt hat, charedi etc. And many many typical. whatever that actually means.

amother

Babypink

Sun, Jun 23 2024, 10:03 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

I’m asking genuinely because I’m sincerely curious. I wonder if me and you have the same definition of typical yeshivish. Or if all these families have truly been flying under my radar.

What town specifically did those families move from? Do you know what schools their children were in? Do you know if they are BT? If they had strong families ties and support in America?

Also, perhaps you do truly know 50-100-150-200 “typical” families. With dozens of thousands of in town yeshivish families in America that’s statistically tiny tiny tiny.

It’s like a doctor who treat pediatric cancer saying they know tons and tons of kids with cancer and it’s very common. BH it’s not very common, it’s just his line of work. Similarly someone living in RBS where almost all the “typical yeshivish” American Olim settle can know “so many”. That doesn’t mean it’s typical.

shabbatiscoming

Sun, Jun 23 2024, 10:03 am

amother Ballota wrote:

You keep repeating yourself, oh yeah, but not addressing what I say.
I never said they want to kill davka recognizable Jews. I KNOW THEY DON'T CARE. Please stop mentioning this irrelevant piece of info.
Recognizable Jews are just an easier target to identify.
I'm referring specifically to targeted individual terrorist attacks on single/a few people, not large scale war. You know, like the ones we had in the bloody year before the war.
You know what? Just have a look at the 40+ victims yourself. How many were frum? How many of the Israeli population is frum?
There, you got your answer.
Now, where is a recognizable Jew more likely to get killed in a targeted attack for being Jewish, EY or US?
Facts and statistics are stubborn things.

And Im telling you, the terrorists are not targeting recognizable jews. Please understand this. Not sure why its hard to understand.

amother

Ballota

Sun, Jun 23 2024, 10:03 am

essie14 wrote:

No frum areas were targeted on October 7.
In fact,many foreign workers were killed and taken hostage. And Arab Israelis were also killed.
One died screaming in Arabic that he wasn't Jewish.
Noa Argamani isn't "Jewish looking".

And I'll say it again: I'm specifically referring to single, targeted terrorist attacks, the ones that make you look over your shoulder even when you're not in the actual war zone. The ones that make me worry for the safety of my ds, learning in Yerushalayim close to some attack sites.

amother

Cobalt

Sun, Jun 23 2024, 10:05 am

I'm not buying this whole love for the land thing sorry.
I'm not buying that there are thousands of olim who left perfectly normal settled lives to go live in a war zone amongst violent bloodthirsty Arabs.
I don't buy claims of non-judgmentalism from people who spit out the biggest insults. Even with a source.
Nor would I want to move to a non-judgmental place in Israel where families consist of a kid a dog a cat and a bird and then they tell everyone not to dredge up excuses for not leaving America.

amother

Babypink

Sun, Jun 23 2024, 10:06 am

small bean wrote:

They went to afulah.

These are typical lakewood families, who made aliyah like 5 years ago and went to beitar.

That’s beautiful! Do you happen to know anything about their background in America?

I actually know some American yeshivish men who learned in a yeshiva in beitar who would love to make Aliyah to there. It seems like there is a specific yeshiva there that many want to go back to. Do you know what I’m talking about?

shabbatiscoming

Sun, Jun 23 2024, 10:07 am

amother Cobalt wrote:

Dont buy it. Thats fine. That doesnt make it not true

shabbatiscoming

Sun, Jun 23 2024, 10:09 am

amother Oldlace wrote:

It has nothing to do with what YOU believe. No asked your royal highness for ur beliefs. It’s Torah and it’s black and white.

Waiting for dh to get home and he’ll get me the exact mekor.

Well, here is the makor for the mitzvot thing:

וכך מובא ברש"י (דברים יא, יח): "וְשַׂמְתֶּם אֶת דְּבָרַי – אף לאחר שתגלו (מן הארץ) היו מצוינים במצוות – הניחו תפילין, עשו מזוזות, כדי שלא יהיו לכם חדשים כשתחזרו". נמצא שכל קיום המצוות בחוץ לארץ הוא כדי שנוכל אח"כ לקיימן בשלמות בארץ (עי' רמב"ן ויקרא יח, כה

So its not made up either.

amother

Pink

Sun, Jun 23 2024, 10:09 am

Sorry if it this comes across harsh but these threads are getting so redundant and it’s so frustrating to watch.
OP, imagine you shift your question slightly to ask someone without children or with a small family how you are just “trying to understand” why they would not take advantage of this beautiful mitzva of pru urvu, especially when it seems so obvious when you look around how much better it makes your life, how much joy and peace it brings you.
Would you ever ask such a question? I really hope not. Because whomever doesn’t have children or has only one or two falls under one of two categories: either they cannot physically have another child no matter how much they wish they could or for any myriad of other (legitimate!) reasons they strongly feel that a child right now would be devastating to the wellbeing and safety of themselves and their current family.
How dare you rub your own zchut of living the dream of so many in the faces of those who have not yet been zoche to do so? Who are you to demand an explanation and an opportunity to decide whether their “excuses” hold merit in your eyes?
These threads need to stop.
They cause tremendous pain- yes PAIN- to those who yearn for the day they can finally fulfill this dream but who can’t right now and you also cause huge amount of resentment on those who you are forcing to “explain” themselves by insinuating their own disregard for living the life they are supposed to be by your standards.
Noone is going to read this thread and say hey I actually never thought of this at all, thanks for bringing it up, booking my tickets now.
Just drop it.
Count your blessings, thank Hashem for every single one of them (because yes, it is HE who gave you the zchut to live there) and stop the “innocent” judging.

For context: My family is be”H making Aliyah next summer (was supposed to be this summer, but hit a snag with our paperwork and dont want to move Mid-school year with our preteens) and when I daven every day for Him to help us adjust easily I add in that He should guard me and help me to make sure that no matter how happy I end up there I should never, ever stoop to rubbing it in the face of those who do not have this joy that I do.

small bean

Sun, Jun 23 2024, 10:09 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

And your point? Many people who make aliyah know that they are giving things up. And they are ok with that. That is part of making that move.

My point was why eventhough there are communities my family would do mostly fine in with the type,I wouldn't be able to handle the lifestyle. I did a pilot trip, years ago to RBS because my husband wishes we'd move and I couldn't do it there. Now I have family in beitar, went two years ago and there it's even squishier. My husband made me looks a few moshavs that have villas etc, but while those were better, we wouldn't fit in. Not everyone can find a place that they would enjoy the quality of life and the type of community.

shabbatiscoming

Sun, Jun 23 2024, 10:19 am

amother Babypink wrote:

So tell me what typical yeshivish means. Maybe I have it all wrong.
I dont think I do. But again, just because you dont know any doesnt mean its not so.

amother

Honeydew

Sun, Jun 23 2024, 10:23 am

amother Outerspace wrote:

Because they live in Israel so of course they are better than us, they know better, they planned their lives better, they sacrificed better. So they decide it’s ok for them because they are still better Jews than us 🤷‍♀️

Even if they don’t say it or think it, that’s how their posts come across. “I was able to do it, I was able to sacrifice. Those who are not doing it just don’t want to make a hard choice.” Really? Cuz my kid is struggling with so much right now, struggling with drugs, struggling with Judaism….yea, for sure the right thing to do is just pick up when kid is going into high school (now going into 12th grade) and throw kid into a new culture where many struggling American kids find a not so good path….
Whether you mean to or not, these comments about why aren’t people making Aliyah are hurtful.

amother

Ballota

Sun, Jun 23 2024, 10:23 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

And Im telling you, the terrorists are not targeting recognizable jews. Please understand this. Not sure why its hard to understand.

What you're saying isn't hard to understand. B/c you're not saying what I'm saying!
I KNOW THEY AREN'T TARGETING RECOGNIZABLE JEWS.
I KNOW THEY'RE TARGETING JEWS, PERIOD.
RECOGNIZABLE JEWS ARE JUST AN EASIER ROUTE TO ACHIEVE THERE GOAL.
The proof is in the amt of frum Jews being killed in the street vs the amt of chilonim, when frum are the minority.
Is it clear enough now?

Ema of 5

Sun, Jun 23 2024, 10:31 am

juggling wrote:

Everyone who's getting defensive about why they can't/don't/won't make aliyah... That wasn't the question. The question was why people don't run to Israel from the antisemitism in America.

There are two possible answers:
1. I'm not afraid enough to upend my family
And/or
2. I don't think Israel is the safer place

Either or both of those reasons are good answers to the question.

Honestly there is no need to get defensive in answer to that question.

This is why people get defensive. Those are not the only two possibilities.
-it would be traumatic for my child/children
-parnasah will be a big struggle
-I have to take care of elderly/informed family members
-I have a child/children whose needs are being met very well right now
-I have a child who is struggling and was told that staying here is better for this child

There are lots of other reasons too. You, sitting over there behind your computer screen, don’t get to decide if someone reason is “good” or not.