Double Take: Separating Classes by Yeshivishness

amother

Red

Thu, Dec 26 2024, 5:55 pm

Even if she herself fits into the class, the family doesn’t. How does that work when none of the families want their kid going to her house? It’s really a hard one when the school splits by type.

I used to send my kids to a very mixed school and it was mostly split by type. I wanted to switch my kid’s class and they absolutely refused. I ended up switching schools. This was a mo/ jpf school.

amother

↑ Turquoise

Thu, Dec 26 2024, 6:00 pm

amother Red wrote:

Except a girl like Avigael is aware enough as she doesn't want the lifestyle of her family and doesnt share the hashkafa of her parents.
So she would go to friends instead of hosting. Or will set boundaries with her family- hi, we will use the basement, please let us study in peace etc. Please keep the music down/TV off etc.

amother

↑ Electricblue

Thu, Dec 26 2024, 6:03 pm

amother Mintcream wrote:

She doesn’t sound so stuck. She sounds like she agrees with the parents. She could have fought back against their attitude and explained the benefits of having a girl like Avigayil as a friend.

I don't know if she agrees with the parents. I think she wants to take the easy way out, and it's easier to upset one family than it is to go against the will of several strong minded families. She doesn't want to spend the energy to fight.

↑ Hashem_Yaazor

Thu, Dec 26 2024, 6:55 pm

keym wrote:

Im not denying that.

I'm talking about the principal.
I just don't get the feeling that she was this heartless cruel person. Shes being pressured by the board to make the "yeshivish" families happy so they don't split off.
I've seen the level of politics in these situations and I just can't say that the principal is the villain. I see her incredibly stuck.

Pressure from the board to make separate classes but I don't think that they have say in how the classes are broken up and that is likely up to her discretion within the framework. Ariella could easily fit in despite her family background.

amother

Ivory ↓

Thu, Dec 26 2024, 7:02 pm

I’ll preempt by saying that I didn’t have time to read the article yet, so maybe Im totally off base here.

But being from a chassidish community, sending to my sect’s moised/school, I’ve long wished they’d divide the school by frumkeit level.
While I have no issue with my kids getting different perspectives, I’m tired of them being lectured about how tumah video is, how smartphones are a direct line to gehenim, how watching DVD’s on chol hamoad is not ideal.

I’d gladly have them split up all the children of smartphone homes, and leave our children out of the bashing please. No one needs to hear that their father would’ve been from the ‘misyavnim’ because he watches WhatsApp status.

(Don’t tell me to switch schools, because this is half the parent body. We belong just fine. They just prefer to cater to one half only.)

amother

Daffodil

Thu, Dec 26 2024, 7:29 pm

I actually didn't finish reading the principals side, but so far I don't see her perspective at all.

The girl was well integrated into a yeshivish group of friends, she was influenced by them, not vice versa. The principal admitted that this was the case yet kept insisting that she couldn't switch her despite her shriveling up and really not doing well in the other class?! Who was she trying to please?

I am against the concept as well (not yeshivish), rubs me so wrong. We are all yidden, and I strongly believe that a big part of our avodah in this galus is learning to get along and respect each other together with our differences.

While my home is extremely sheltered, I live in a diverse (and more modern) community, and have one option for a school. Yes, my kids are exposed to things I wouldn't allow into my home, and they know that we have a different standard to most of their friends. They also know that there are many true and proper ways of serving Hashem, and all jews serve Hashem in the best way they know how. I find that when I explain my standard, people are respectful and happy to accomodate. I find most people are great at live and let live when they don't feel threatened/ patronized that their way is wrong. I am grateful that we live where we do and that my kids are exposed to all types, so that they can learn about accepting and respecting different ligit ways of doing yiddishkeit.

Regarding I exposure to negative influences.. I think rather than stressing over controlling our children's environment, and who we let into their lives, it is more effective to teach them our values in a strong and integrated and positive way.. there is too much that is out of our control in their environments, and only so much sheltering that we can realistically do. For our children to keep our values it meaningful to them personally. The days of relying solely on peer pressure are gone.

I hope that wasn't patronizing... just a pet peeve of mine...

joker

Thu, Dec 26 2024, 7:54 pm

I like the idea in general of dividing according to needs like academics or religious level but theres no reason one girl can't be allowed in to a class that's mostly homogenous. Exposure to one child does not ruin the whole idea. Even within the homogenous class there's going to be differences. This principal is being extreme just to save her school.

amother

Calendula

Thu, Dec 26 2024, 7:56 pm

This is so cringe...
Teach your kids that some people are not as yeshivish as you and teach them the difference between acceptance and approval.
I grew up with many classmates, neighbors and relatives who were less "yeshivish" than me and some who were more yeshivish. My parents taught us to accept everyone even if we don't approve of what they do.
I can be in a group of people where I feel like a rebbetzin and be in another crowd where I feel like a [gentile]..
Learning how to accept others needs to be taught from a young age.

amother

RosePink

Thu, Dec 26 2024, 8:25 pm

The yeshivish parents fighting for this change are shooting themselves in the foot.

Our large girls school has always had the "yeshivish" class. They have rules- parents can't have a smart phone, not even for work, you need to sign a "no technology" paper or something. Anyways at the beginning of one school year, there was not enough kids signed up for the Yeshivish class.

The school called my friend and asked her to put her daughter in the class. My friend is like "but I have a smartphone etc." and they are like "it's okay, we know you are a good family..." Anyways, needless to say, she did not join that class. Their loss.

Also the reason they didn't have enough kids in that class in the first place is because many good kollel/Yeshivish families specifically don't want their kids in that class since
1. they don't want their kids to feel more elite and look down on the rest of the school. Bad middos.
2. Those classes are often known to have more behavior issues with the kids. Not all the time, but yes some of the time.

The strong kollel families don't need their kids in a special class. Their kids chinuch is strong enough to withstand whatever is going on in the regular classes.

amother

Clear

Thu, Dec 26 2024, 10:31 pm

amother Ivory wrote:

Why does any child need to hear such garbage from their school? What kind of chinuch is that? Trashing their parents? Gross.

amother

Saddlebrown

Thu, Dec 26 2024, 10:59 pm

This is bargaining with a girl's neshama. Probably worse. If the principal believes that Avigail's newly found ruchnius is a good thing, then sending her to that class and telling her to make friends thereto replace her former ones is a solid way to reverse it. The mother doesn't get this piece and isn't asking for it- if she was, she would go to the school's morei derech or a prominent rav in the community and emphasize it. But she is focused on friends and is missing this piece.

Moreover, this is 8th grade. It's unclear from the story, but if this girl needs to get into high school, they have just jetisoned her chances to go anywhere appropriate for her. And likely have messed up countless other girls by categorizing them so clearly and isolating them from girls who could serve as role models. The average bais yaakov in a community without many schools has girls from more modern families, and even some BT's. You have to give kids room to grow. This fictional story is making me angry.

amother

Salmon

Fri, Dec 27 2024, 12:36 am

Yours kids need to have a strong backbone on teaching them what we do in our house and what’s right from wrong. You cannot wrap your children in a bubble of protection and then they’ll melt the moment they are exposed to anything.
Growing up in a mixed community and school as a kid I always knew to ask, are you watching a movie? Before heading over to friends. Even as young as first or 2nd grade I knew we didn’t watch movies. And I knew my friends did. Same with Cholov Yisroel. My parents were always encouraging to host friends rather than go to them, it was just a natural thing that happened, not a strict command. Especially in 8th grade a kid has a direction of where they are going
Teach your children. Don’t box them in.
And if you really don’t want the exposure and specifically want your children growing up very sheltered? Change your school/ neighborhood / community but how this is written is horrific sorry. To segregate the classes won’t help a yeshivish kid who wants to find out what out there in the big wide world.

And regardless of all just to saying it bec it bothers me so much. Having a smartphone doesn’t make you a horrible person. Having internet in your home doesn’t make you not Jewish.

amother

Crimson

Fri, Dec 27 2024, 1:18 am

amother Red wrote:

You simply sit down with the girl and explain the nuances to her. This is a girl with no bad intentions who will do what it takes. And the families that cut a girl like that off are on a quick path to gehinom

singleagain

Fri, Dec 27 2024, 5:02 am

Whatever happened to teaching kids "al pi darko" according to her own path?

One of the reasons I suffered in school was bc I wasn't like a lot of the other girls in my classes/grade. And the school harped on that point and made things difficult.

The school needs to adapt to the student body, fine, but don't forget that the students are individuals and that should be taken into account more than who their family is