My unpopular opinion

amother

DarkKhaki

Thu, Dec 19 2024, 9:30 am

mommy3b2c wrote:

All these posts about people being strict about how many snacks per day and how many yogurts per day or serving only rice for supper or rationing one drumstick per child , etc….
Also, kids knowing that parents only by food on sale etc….

I think this hurts the children terribly . It’s extremely rigid , makes kids feel like they are being stifled and very anxious . It also makes them desperate for regular, average things that they otherwise probably wouldn’t care about .

Small example:
As a small child my mom bought only big bags of chips and pretzels to save money and put it in baggies for snacks every day. I can’t describe my desperate yearning to have a regular chip bag like everyone else in my class.

My own children often ask me to buy big bags and put the snack into baggies . They couldn’t care less. Why? Because they were never made to feel like something so small and stupid was out of their reach .

(For clarity: no, I did not grow up in a poor , deprived home . But there was something about all the rules and rigidity around certain things combined with my personality that really effected me badly .)

Anyway, back to my point . Think very long and clearly about the way your approach to food is effecting your children.

Throw the tomatoes . I’m ready ! 😈

Mt friend just texted me, that a mutual friend just told her she has less than $1 in their account.... they are going thru a crazy
difficult time and yes, I'm sure she might be counting the snack bags, if she has any....

But unless you're really in a stuck financial place, I 100% agree.
We have a chips drawer and cake amd cookies in a holder on the counter.
My kids can chose 2 of whatever they want. (2-3 large cookies and a potatoes sticks bag) after that they have to take a healthier option. Like an apple or apple sauce pouch or cup up fruit I keep in the fridge or whatever else we have in the house occasionally they'll ask to take a junk food and I'll offer more natural healthy alternatives (different fruit leather/fruit bars mostly) and they'll be happy. Sometimes they do want that candy or fruit snack jellies baggy and that's ok too.

But I have one kid who would take 4 baggies of fruit snack jellies plus 3 lollipops every day if I wouldn't be on top of her. She has a crazy sugar craving and so for her, she takes a natural fruit bar every day. But I don't allow junk food every day. It's reserved for special occasions like rosh chodesh, shabbos, a reward. And sometimes randomly too. But not multiple daily.

You have to know you're kid.

↑ mommy3b2c ↓

Thu, Dec 19 2024, 9:33 am

Chayalle wrote:

Are we in a similar age range? I think what you describe was probably more common in my parents' generation.

However, I do aim for a certain balance and I do need to budget my shopping. I don't see a problem with stocking up on food items when they go on sale, or buying certain special items when they are a bit cheaper (which was sometimes a treat for my family - like for example, buying certain puddings as a treat for my kids when they were on sale - but we didn't buy them all the time.)

Of course everything you’re describing is ok. I also stock up on things that are on sale . It’s just a whole certain attitude that I’m talking about . And like I mentioned , I didn’t grow up in nearly that extreme. There was always plenty of food and snacks , and as we got older my mom got less rigid about the whole thing . But the fact that even these things bothered me and gave me tremendous anxiety makes me worried for the posters children that are being served rations of rice and beans every night . It’s crazy what that can do to a child .

amother

Mintcream

Thu, Dec 19 2024, 9:36 am

I was raised similar to you OP, I think I'm around your age (40).

But for me it was a combination of rigidity, cheapness, and not caring.
If my parents would have been willing to meet us somewhat halfway, I probably would have been ok. But snack was the cheapest option available, in baggies knotted, and crushed into the bottom of the lunch bag under the apple. (Which was always Macintosh which bruise so easily).

If my parents would have been willing to say "we can only buy the big bags, but you can choose the flavor- barbecue or onion garlic. If they would have bothered to pack it in ziplock bags, if they would buy the apples that we liked (red delicious or granny smith).

Sometimes I do buy big bags. But I let my kids choose. If I can't afford the snack bags they want, the least I can do is buy the big bags of hot sauce chips so the snack is the same as their friends.
I'll ask them to choose the big packages of cookies instead of just grabbing dry oatmeal cookies. I'll let them choose the apples and the sandwich spreads.

amother

Magnolia

Thu, Dec 19 2024, 9:42 am

mommy3b2c wrote:

I think attitude plays a part. I won't buy those snack bags for my kids. I can afford to. But it's stupid. I made a math lesson of it with my kids, showed them how much more snack they get for the same money. They're all fine with it. Because they're not walking around thinking "oh, no, mommy and tatty are so poor we can't afford this" or "mommy and tatty are so mean they don't buy us fun snacks" they are walking around knowing our family is being smart and they're actually benefitting from it.

As to the rest - rationing out food portions at dinner and such.... no, I never have done that. My parents did this with us and I do indeed have a pretty seriously unhealthy relationship with food. I eat healthfully most of the time, but my first reaction to stress of any kind is to binge eat like there is no tomorrow.

amother

Glitter

Thu, Dec 19 2024, 9:46 am

Yes we shouldn't be crazy around food but at the same time as a generation our kids have such minimal boundaries and understanding of life. There has to be a balance. How many times are we told "give in, let them be pile like their classmates, get them whatever their friends have, don't deprive..."
It has gotten absolutely nuts. From spending more on a coat for a teen than I would spend on my own - and I would wear it more than 1-2 years, to bags, name brands, gifts, jewelry, activities, food...

I am younger than you but I never had snack bags ever growing up. It was way more expensive. I also didn't get the $100 sweatshirt that everyone else seemed to own. I never even asked for the $50 one. Because I had a sense that I didn't need exactly what everyone had. I was totally OK, not deprived and no issues with food BH.

It is about balance more than anything. Don't have extremes but you don't need the snack bags. Snack bags won't prevent disordered eating, behavioral issues or trauma.

We are too scared of our kids being uncomfortable or different and THAT will cause them issues.

↑ mommy3b2c

Thu, Dec 19 2024, 9:47 am

Molly Weasley wrote:

Break the cycle!

By expensive nosh! Spend $1.50 - $2.50+ a day per child just on nosh, so that your children don't suffer the horrible trauma of eating nosh out of a sandwich bag.

Also, tuition is way way too expensive. We must do something about that

I appreciate your sarcasm . And don’t worry , break the cycle I did 😀

My kids are thrilled to eat snack out of baggies like I said . These things don’t matter to them. They never had a reason to feel deprived or anxious so they are happy with whatever .
And I if I tell them no for whatever reason they are happy with that too!
They don’t have any of these anxieties or fears that make them feel desperate.

I just remembered a great example.

When my son was 5 or 6 he needed a bunch of fillings and root canals and needed general anasthesia. We found this out in June and the next available appointment was in August . At that point he wasn’t in pain, but I was very worried that The no pain should last all the way till his August appointment. We were upstate for the summer where he was generally used to going to the on ground, grocery and buying candy every day. I explained to him clearly what I was worried about, and I made a rule that he was not to have even one bite of candy from June until the end of August. Guess what? He did not complain, even one bit, and happily accepted the rule with zero complaints, drama or trauma. He never feels deprived or misunderstood, or like his needs are unimportant, and therefore he was happy to accept the rule, knowing it was truly best for him.

Last edited by mommy3b2c on Thu, Dec 19 2024, 9:48 am; edited 1 time in total

amother

Jean

Thu, Dec 19 2024, 10:15 am

So easy to say when you’re NOT struggling to pay for basic necessities.
I agree, of course, that every child should have enough nutritious food without worry, not just for physical but also for emotional health and security.
I also feel strongly that children can and should be educated in fiscal responsibility. Recently my child requested a certain healthy convenience food that is expensive (large package- regular price $7, comes on sale for $3.50-$4). I explained that it comes on sale regularly (every few weeks) so, if we wait we can stock up then for the same amount of money that would purchase fewer now. She agreed that it made sense to wait as long as we could get it within a certain amount of time, so we decided together to wait 2 weeks and, if it wasn’t on sale yet, we’d buy package at the regular price. I think that was good chinuch, not damaging! It actually was on sale 2 weeks later, but it already was on my shopping list regardless.

There was a time when my kids knew that chicken cutlets were expensive. I’d buy them, and make sure to prepare enough for my family to enjoy when I served them, but it was definitely a Rosh Chodesh/ special occasion food. I simply couldn’t afford it often. (Now I’m thrilled to be able to serve about once a week- but I don’t think this makes my kids more emotionally secure!) And there are wonderful parents who can’t afford it at all.

My kids love red peppers and broccoli- wonderful healthy foods! Also incredibly expensive now. My kids know that I stock up when frozen broccoli is on sale and I do ration how often I serve it (usually twice a week but they would definitely enjoy more often. I buy red peppers for Shabbos and only a few for during the week to mix into salads or add to a platter of other sliced vegetables. My kids know that when I find a good price I buy a lot and they can go to town. I don’t think they’re harmed by not always having free access to as much as they would like because of the price.
My kids also know that there’s a certain type of yogurt that I prefer, and I stock up when it’s on sale. They also know that I’ll occasionally treat myself and buy 1 not on sale because it’s sometimes worth spending that extra $1 but I don’t generally WASTE money on myself either.

Again, I pray that all kids have full access to enough nutritious food.
I am disturbed, though, that buying children whatever they want and having no financial limits is presented as a value.

I do not know of anyone serving just rice or 1 pulke for supper, but I imagine anyone doing so is simply unable to afford more. Should they actively be looking for help? Should we be better at proactively finding and helping those in need? Of course.
But I’m horrified that anyone thinks it’s appropriate to shame people for being poor.

ETA: what about a dessert I prepared for Yom Tov? Or fancy cookies my daughter baked for a friend’s simcha? What about the container of ice cream that I bought for melave Malka? Or the knish I saved for my Mesivta bochur to enjoy when he gets home from yeshiva (since I served 1 per family member since it’s a treat in my house- and there was plenty of other yummy food for supper for whoever wanted more)? I certainly hope no one thinks that kids (or adults!) should be allowed free reign over these! That’s common mentshlachkeit which we should NOT be afraid to teach! I believe that kids who feel secure and listened to will NOT be damaged by having limits.

amother

Ultramarine

Thu, Dec 19 2024, 10:20 am

amother Glitter wrote:

This. And growing up in the 90s - my parents didn’t given on certain things that other kids in my class had and sure, I was disappointed at times but I as long as I had snacks I enjoyed the packaging didn’t really matter - it ended up in the garbage either way. I get it more with teens and outfits etc. but even that, just because everybody (which often means a few kids in the class) has something doesn’t mean that that becomes a requirement for everyone else. It’s really OK for kids to understand that people have different needs and different finances, and while rigidity is not good, being afraid that discomfort or not having the in thing is going to create lifelong trauma I think is taking things to the extreme. I’m not trying to invalidate anyone’s experience, I just think that there needs to be a balance. Of course, regular healthy food should be provided without limit unless there is a specific health concern, like one of my kids would eat a ton of peanut butter, avocado, other fats, which then overwhelms his tummy so we let him have a decent amount, but make sure that we don’t let him have too much in one sitting, to help keep his stomach from getting upset.

goodvibes

Thu, Dec 19 2024, 10:36 am

Quote: "People will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel."

It’s not about the actual actions you take while saving money, it’s how rigid you are about it and how your family feels through it.
If you manage to create an environment where they feel proud of whatever differences they experience from friends, this wont be an issue.
And of course, everything in moderation.

What comes to mind is my experience last year.
One day I declared to my family that this month is health month.
We created a meal-plan, prepared their lunches together and I created guidelines of what they can take to school for snack. That included up to 1 snackbag, 1 homemade mezonos and the rest had to be fruits and vegetables.
My kids did this with so much pride and reported back how everyone wants what they have and asks to trade.
Some other kid with a health conscious or financially strapped parent may grow up to resent it, while my kids keep asking for us to do it again.

It’s all how we make them feel!

flowerpower ↓

Thu, Dec 19 2024, 10:46 am

When we were growing up bagging our own snacks from big bags was in style. My sisters job was to take 2 big snack bags and bag them for all of us every school night. Later on we graduated to snack bags. I actually miss bagging snacks- you get more in a bag that way. I have a snack drawer and its accessed to all. My kids know that its for school. If they want one after school they ask. My pantry is fully stocked all week. My kids can take whatever they want whenever they want. Because they have free reign they never indulge. My neighbors kids have to ask permission to take a cookie. Even 7-8 graders…. Not my style. When my kids say they’re hungry I tell them to take whatever they want from the fridge or closet. Sometimes they surprise me in a good way- they’ll take cottage cheese- slice in veggies and eat it on melba toast. It’s good for them to make their own decisions. I see my neighbors kids at the bus stop with like 5 snacks plus a chocolate bar and other expensive items every day. I think its too much. Its ok to have boundaries a little. My kids can take 3 snacks a day. If they aren’t satisfied they can take other stuff like kids kind bars or a cereal bar…

amother

Tulip ↓

Thu, Dec 19 2024, 1:03 pm

I agree
But I have this opinion in general
If something is available and the kids know it, they will not feel the need to have it always

Some examples
My pantry is stocked with sweet cereals and healthy cereals, yet dd requests bran flakes for breakfast
Once in a blue moon she'll ask for fruity pebbles, and she gets that

My nosh cabinet is fully stocked. Think sour sticks, candies, lollies, fruit roll ups... yet dd usually goes for cookies or chips. Or fruit

We don't have a computer but my tablet is always floating around the house
She hardly ever requests screen time. She knows she'll get it at the usual unofficial time we have fir screen time

Going anon here cuz I share this perspective with friends pretty often irl

small bean ↓

Thu, Dec 19 2024, 1:07 pm

amother Tulip wrote:

This doesn't always work. I don't restrict food either and some of my kids don't make any healthy choices.