Do you really think Hashem wants us to wear lacetops?

amother

↑ Daphne ↓

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 9:47 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

If you are not part of that community why should you follow those poskim? That does not make any logical sense.

I'm referring to people who very clearly ARE part of the community.

amother

Canary

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 9:50 am

amother Dodgerblue wrote:

Hashem would want us to listen to the Gedolim.
Reb. Tzippora Gottleib teaches that "Moshiach will come when we are ready to listen"

I agree. Therefore, I asked my yeshivish Lakewood rav about wearing lace wigs and he told me I can. He also said that he was in rav forscheimers office when someone called about a lace top kol korei. Rav forscheimer told the caller that he never signed his name to that and he believes is a lot more nuanced than a blanket yes or no.
And to that poster above- I am a classy lady. Very classy. I do NOT wear tight clothing, short skirts etc. I would never in a million years chew gum in public or private (most disgusting habit imo) and I wouldn’t EVER shriek in public. Woah. What insane conjecture

amother

Lavender

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 10:10 am

In response to the op:

No. I don’t think hashem meant for us to wear wigs, lace or otherwise.
But I also don’t think he meant for us to wear tights, black skirts, only certain colors shoes, etc. I think we’ve far far strayed from what hashem meant for women to dress like.

If we’d revert back to wearing flown robes and sandals, nose rings and beautiful colors, I’d gladly cover my hair with a cloth when going outside all the while wearing it beautifully styled inside my home.

kneidelmeidel

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 10:10 am

Not sure if this has been said because I don’t have the time to trawl through six pages of arguments, but there is a fundamental misconception here that we keep Halacha FOR H-SHEM!!! Infinite divinity is lacking NOTHING!! There is NOTHING we can do/ give H-shem!! All of Judaism, the laws and philosophies, is for US!!!! To make US better people!! To help us achieve tikkun for our little slice of G-Dliness with which we have been bestowed, so that WE can have a good life in this world, and reach a pleasant state in the next! H-shem only gives.

The idea that I can please/ appease/ anger/ displease H-Shem is pagan. Those terms are used in the Torah only to make the lessons/ concepts they are coming to teach us, understandable to humans, so they use human reference points. H-Shem is not a human.

There is a Halacha that the hair of a married woman is considered ervah and must be covered, so we cover it. If my exceedingly competent Rabbi says lace tops are as fine as any other human hair wig, then I wear them, happily and guilt-free! For ME- because I want to be a Halacha abiding person because I recognise that that is the pathway to becoming my best self!

Last edited by kneidelmeidel on Wed, Jul 24 2024, 10:12 am; edited 1 time in total

pause

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 10:11 am

On Imamother, wigs is a sensitive topic. Amothers are very possessive over their wigs and anyone asking a question or insinuating that maybe there is room for improvement gets pelted. Notice OP hasn't been back since her very first post.

kermit

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 10:19 am

that's a question only you can answer for yourself OP.
and every other woman must ask that of themselves in where they are holding and growing.

to go from not covering to wearing a lacetop? beautiful!!! what a zechus! I'm jealous of someone able to take such a big step.

Kihalacha?
A big rav was asked this question (I believe it was R' moshe feinstein but I'm not 100% sure) and basically said, if women shouldn't wear these sheitlach, a man shouldn't be able to shave -- bc it could be perceived as them using a razor....

that said, I don't personally wear one. but it was a decision I made as a sensitivity factor, for myself in where I was personally holding. as I think it's a sensitivity in tznius not halacha. and I find much of my tznius observance is reliant on tuning into my sensitivity.

amother

Azure ↓

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 10:19 am

whenever this topic comes up I feel like there has to be a very clear distinction made between a LACE wig and an ATTRACTING wig.

the two are completely separate issues and are not exclusive to each other.
you can have a synthetic waist long gorgeous blonde wig and a natural chin length lace top..
now you tell me... how do you say which one is less tznius?

(and im not saying either one is less tznius, im just saying that equating lace with sxy and immodest is ridiculous)

** I would also like to mention that most men I know are totally incapable of telling the difference between a lace and a skin top and some cant even tell if a woman is wearing a shaitel altogether.
I cant tell you how many times DH has referedd to an OBVIOUSLY married woman (think thick synthetic shaitel) for whatever reason and said how am I supposed to know if she is married?!

granted, not every man is spaced but the point is that a lot of this debate is completely irrelevant

amother

↑ Azure

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 10:21 am

another thing.. being totally honest here..

as good as a lace top shaitel is - it still looks like a lace top. ive never ever been caught off gaurd thinking someone was unmarried bec their wig TOTALLY didnt look like a wig.

and ive seen some pretty darn good ones too. so yeah

amother

Forestgreen ↓

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 10:39 am

My Rav signed on these letters which was surprising to me.
So I asked him.

He said, he was shown lace wigs that were unlined and the hair underneath was very visible.
Like wearing just a lace tichel and the hair is clearly seen underneath.
He was told and therefore he signed that SUCH lacetops are problematic (in our community) and anyone who buys one needs to make sure to line the wig or wear an opaque bathing cap type of thing.

He was upset that they changed the goalposts and has since removed his name. But those who are printing letters still have his name there claiming he assured all lace tops, which is not true at all.

amother

SandyBrown

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 10:52 am

amother Begonia wrote:

Yes. Otherwise he would have said what type of coverings aren't allowed. I think this a holier than thou question and attitude. People like to feel good about themselves by putting others down and making more restrictions on themselves.

Or I think people are upset with the restrictions leveled at them, while others don't have the same restrictions. So they apply self-righteous thoughts to it in order to be comfortable with it.

NechaMom

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 10:52 am

Clothes that are not so tzniusdig are still better than no clothes at all.

Lace top wigs are better than no hair covering.

There are different levels of hair covering. Different levels of tznius clothing. Everyone is on their own private journey. Hashem is proud of many many women who wear lace top wigs. He didn't appoint you as judge.

Op, are you doing what Hashem wants 100% of the time?

Last edited by NechaMom on Thu, Jul 25 2024, 12:09 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Azalea

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 11:00 am

amother OP wrote:

Do you really think Hashem wants us to cover our hair with lace top wigs that are many times more attractive to men then our own hair and many times not obvious at all that it’s a wig?

Do you really think lace top wigs are the biggest issue to discuss in today’s world?
Just wondering what the goal of this post is?

↑ Raisin

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 11:33 am

amother Valerian wrote:

Coming from someone who only covers to shul so I have no skin in this game. Most sheitals look better than a woman’s real hair especially after a certain age. I think focusing on lace is a bit silly since most sheitals now are gorgeous and better looking than real hair. Is it really such a sacrifice to cover when it makes you look even better?

Yes it is.

It pretty obvious you don't cover your hair.

And not everyone can afford great sheitals.