Separation of Men and Women.....

↑ amother ↓

Wed, Mar 08 2006, 8:26 am

anyway, usually in these mixed sessions, the women tend to go to the women to chat and the men tend to go to the men.
anyway in all ways round its safer to have them seperate! much safer on the marriages.
I originally come from a community thats not so frum and I have been to many kiddushim that were mixed and iv witnessed many a time a man going up to someone elses wife and kissing her on the cheek! now before I was married I ddnt dwell too much on it, even though I knew that that should not be done! but now that im married and I see these things I say to myself, gosh I would hate my husband to go kissing other pples wives!!! wheres the special relationship between man and wife?! bh we have these halochos!

↑ shabbatiscoming

Sun, Mar 12 2006, 10:19 am

Motek wrote:

amother wrote:

iv witnessed many a time a man going up to someone elses wife and kissing her on the cheek!

pretty sad ... pity the rabbi of the shul doesn't inform his congregants that this is forbiden

and I would have to say that sometimes it is worse to embarrass someone than to go over to them and tell them that they are doing something "not kosher"

↑ amother ↓

Sun, Mar 12 2006, 5:23 pm

I once went to a chasunah at which the chosson's family was not frum. The dancing was supposed to be separate but at some point some of the nonfrum ppl started dancng mixed. the kallah was furious and had someone announce that unless the ppl who are dancing mixed stop right now, she, the kallah, is going to sit out all the dances.

Now I do not say that the kallah was not within her rights--it is her chasunah, after all. however, she definitely went about it the wrong way. she embarrassed EVERYONE--both the ppl who were dancing mixed, and everyone else, who was embarrassed for them--and cast a terrible pall over the whole simcha. who felt like dancing at all after that scene?

First off, knowing that her chosson's family is not frum, she could have had a discreet line on the invitation to the effect of "Please abide by Orthodox tradition". hamayvin yovin, and whoever doesn't, will ask what that means. second, if that doesn't work, the thing to have done would have been to have had the announcer state simply that ladies are dancing over there, men are dancing over yonder, and guests are requested to refrain from mixed dancing. and for those who still don't get it, the announcer could have called them aside individually and explained that mixed dancing is against orthodox tradition and therefore not acceptable at this event.

↑ Motek ↓

Sun, Mar 12 2006, 5:47 pm

ytwh1 wrote:

and I would have to say that sometimes it is worse to embarrass someone than to go over to them and tell them that they are doing something "not kosher"

he doesn't have to go over and chastise them

he can inform his congregants, in his next speech, addressing them all, not singling anybody out

↑ amother ↓

Sun, Mar 26 2006, 8:42 am

amother wrote:

anyway, usually in these mixed sessions, the women tend to go to the women to chat and the men tend to go to the men.

thats just not true. at my wedding (and I have been to many just like this) the men and women all "hang out" lets say at the shmorg, together, chatting whith whomever they know and want to talk to.

I actually think that it is healthier to be able to mingle with men and women. I think that b/c some ppl are brought up in the way that they should not interact with the opposite gender, it is bad, but I think that if we instill in young children that "the other" is not so bad, then there would not be so much, to my mind, craziness, when ppl grew up and are not sure of how to handle the oppsite gender!!!
just my two cents (I am sure that I am going to get slaughtered for my opinion, and that is why I wrote this anonymously)

↑ Blossom ↓

Sun, Mar 26 2006, 12:33 pm

Quote:

but I think that if we instill in young children that "the other" is not so bad

Why would we instill in them anything about the other being bad. We instill in them this concept because that is what the Torah commands us to do the word bad doesn't come in at all.
Although we don't understand everything our Torah tells us there are many things that are obvious why the Torah commands us so, and Mixing Men and women is one of them. There are obvious reasons why it is not healthy and I'm sure you know what I mean.

↑ amother ↓

Sun, Mar 26 2006, 1:40 pm

Blossom wrote:

Quote:

but I think that if we instill in young children that "the other" is not so bad

I guess I was not very clear in what I meant in what I said. I meant that I remember growing up, in school, not at all by my parents, boys were never to go near. now mind you, I was in a school where you could call it partialy co-ed, we were boys and girls in the school but NOT in the same classes, not lunch time and not break time either, nothing together. we were taught that boys were not something that we were to go near. so this became bad when 1.you did end up interacting with boys, if by mistake in school, and the school administration made it seem like THE WORST thing in the world, which I think is pushing it a bit and 2.when you start to date and it is very hard to feel anything but uncomfortable on a date because you have been taught that boys and girls together are a big NO NO!!!
I remember when I started dating it was soooooooo hard to get into feeling comfortable talking to a guy on the other side of the table. I am sure that that also had something to do with the fact that I dated MANY guys b4 I was sent the bracha that is my husband!!!I didnt feel comfortable for a loooooong time with guys and I know that it had to do with the ways that my teachers (not all but most) taught us to be around the other gender.

↑ Blossom

Sun, Mar 26 2006, 2:23 pm

OK, I get what you're saying Very Happy

.
I do agree about Yiddishkeit that it should be taught in a positive light and not negative as unfortunately is common. Teaching the beauty of our Torah gives us pride, happiness and understanding and the love to our Torah and mitzvahs while teaching everything with a "this isn't allowed and that isn't allowed" gives us sort of a restricting, resentful attitude.

↑ amother ↓

Sun, Mar 26 2006, 3:53 pm

Blossom wrote:

OK, I get what you're saying Very Happy

no, im not really saying that because we were restricted from being with the opposite gender we were resentful, not at all. I was just trying to say that because we were not allowed to be around boys, it made it uncomfortable when the time came that we had to be around boys (ie dating).

↑ Motek ↓

Sun, Mar 26 2006, 4:55 pm

amother wrote:

I was just trying to say that because we were not allowed to be around boys, it made it uncomfortable when the time came that we had to be around boys (ie dating).

so? who says that's bad? that's good! Smile

And then, when married, there should continue to be a discomfort around single and married men.

↑ amother

Sun, Mar 26 2006, 5:01 pm

Motek wrote:

amother wrote:

I was just trying to say that because we were not allowed to be around boys, it made it uncomfortable when the time came that we had to be around boys (ie dating).

so? who says that's bad? that's good! Smile

And then, when married, there should continue to be a discomfort around single and married men.

I dont agree with you, that it is a good thing to feel that discomfort...on a date that discomfort is terrible and it would be so much better if we were a bit more comfortable talking to boys. I dont mean so comfortable that things will happen, thats taking it a bit far.
also, why should we have to feel discomfort around single guys after we are married? or married men? the comfort level that I am talking about is just that talking to them is not uncomfortable, nothing else. so what wrong with that?