Every 10 minutes? | Imamother

Seraph ↓

Sun, Feb 15 2009, 2:09 am

A girl in my playgroup is in the process of being potty trained at home. She's in pull ups here and her parents want me asking her if she needs to go to the bathroom. Practically every 10 minutes, at most 15 minutes, she says she needs to go, I take her, and then nothing.
At home, she's not making in her underwear at all.\

What do I do? keep bringing her every 10 minutes for a no show?

smiley:) ↓

Sun, Feb 15 2009, 2:13 am

...... Tell the parents Pesach vacation (Rosh Chodesh Nissan is in what, 5 wks?) is coming up and THEY should enjoy toilet training her?

Ima'la ↓

Sun, Feb 15 2009, 2:16 am

A child who NEEDS to be taken every 10-15 minutes is probably not physically ready.

But if it's "no-shows" then maybe she doesn't really need to...try stalling/pushing her off and not taking her more than once every 30 min. I think every half hour is normal at the beginning and then it lengthens. If that's not working you could tell the parents that she's not ready for training in gan yet. As long as she's in pull-ups and not regular underwear, I don't see that it's such a big deal if she has an accident, though, as far as you're concerned.

Marion ↓

Sun, Feb 15 2009, 2:29 am

I would take her out of the PullUps for beginners. If she can be in underwear at home she can be in underwear at gan. PullUps are sending mixed messages, except maybe at naptime.

If she's asking, take her.

And Smiley, that's not a GREAT answer. If she's really ready, they'll miss the window if they wait until Pesach. That's what we're dealing with now, because the daycare wouldn't follow through when he was ready, and now it's just easier for him to go in his diaper.

↑ Ima'la ↓

Sun, Feb 15 2009, 2:35 am

Marion wrote:

I would take her out of the PullUps for beginners. If she can be in underwear at home she can be in underwear at gan. PullUps are sending mixed messages, except maybe at naptime.

Honestly, if the mother would ask me, that's probably what I would say, but if it's the ganenet who's asking, because training the child in gan is proving to be too taxing, I would not tell her to suggest anything that will make this more difficult for her - I.e. switching to underwear that will require cleaning up if there's an accident...

↑ smiley:) ↓

Sun, Feb 15 2009, 2:36 am

Marion wrote:

So it's the daycare person's responsibility to train her?

↑ Marion ↓

Sun, Feb 15 2009, 2:39 am

No, it's the daycare person's responsibility to give backup to the parents. At the very least, it's the daycare person's responsibility not to contradict what the parents are doing.

Just like if you are teaching you child brachot at home, you would look for a daycare or gan who would be able to be consistent with them when you weren't there, not one that would say "oh, brachot are only important when you're eating with Eema & Abba".

↑ Seraph ↓

Sun, Feb 15 2009, 2:41 am

And how long do I sit with her by the toilet? 10 minutes?
I told the parents I cant be too on top of it, as I said to them I'm only willing to assist in training after pesach. But when she's asking, every 10 minutes???? Tell her "No, make in the pull up?"

↑ Marion ↓

Sun, Feb 15 2009, 2:43 am

Um, why are you only willing to train after Pesach? Yeah, I know, it's easier in nice weather, but the kids' systems don't get that. If she's ready now, train her now.

And no, DON'T encourage going in the PullUp!

↑ Seraph ↓

Sun, Feb 15 2009, 2:43 am

Marion wrote:

I would take her out of the PullUps for beginners. If she can be in underwear at home she can be in underwear at gan. PullUps are sending mixed messages, except maybe at naptime.

Take her out of pull ups when she hasnt peed on the toilet even ONCE in gan so far, only peed and pooed in the pull up? I'm NOT interested in cleaning up poopied underwear, etc...

↑ Marion ↓

Sun, Feb 15 2009, 2:43 am

IMO, take her, help her get on the toilet, then tell her she can call you when she's ready to come down. That can be in 2 minutes, 10, or 20, but in the meantime you can go back to the other kids.

↑ smiley:) ↓

Sun, Feb 15 2009, 2:44 am

Marion wrote:

Interesting way to look at it. I see it as them not wanting to do it, so give it to the caretaker. If they would wait another month they would have a whole month free to train the kid. And if the kid is so ready the month wont make a difference.

↑ Marion ↓

Sun, Feb 15 2009, 2:46 am

Who has a month off? Daycare is closed for 9 days...which is one more than usual. 2 days are yom tov and 1 day is Shabbat, and you can bet I do lots of laundry on chol hamoed when I'm toilet training!

I'd love to do it, but it's kind of hard when I see my kids (awake) for maybe 4 hours a day. The "train at home but diaper at daycare" shita doesn't work for all kids (we tried it for 3 weeks). If it works, great, otherwise, the daycare needs to be part of the process.

My son was DRY overnight and during naps; 2 accidents a day after Sukkot. The daycare put him back in diapers, so now we get to start all over again. Was he trained? Not really, because he was holding it in rather than asking. But we were making progress on the asking part. But it was easier for them to have him in diapers.

↑ smiley:) ↓

Sun, Feb 15 2009, 2:50 am

Fine, ganim have a month off. 9 days for a daycare is better than 1 day off for shabbat. You can still toilet train on yom tov and shabbat.

I still don't think it's a daycare's job. Apparently they didn't think so either.

↑ Marion ↓

Sun, Feb 15 2009, 2:51 am

Seraph, if you're dealing with toilet-training aged kids, you're going to have accidents to deal with. If you don't want to clean up poopy underwear you might want to consider taking older kids next year.

(Oh, and I only expect the daycare to take the underwear and throw it into a plastic bag for me to collect at the end of the day. I'll deal with the actual poop.)

↑ Marion ↓

Sun, Feb 15 2009, 2:54 am

And ganim won't take them if they're not already trained, so we're not talking gan, we're talking daycare.

The point, Smiley, is that it's a process. We went from no success to 2 accidents/day in 4 days. But they couldn't be bothered so now we're back in diapers. Their job is to take care of the kids when I can't. That includes follow through. If I wouldn't feed my child cheese then I expect them not to either. If I expect my child to wear a kippah at home, I expect them to encourage it too. If I expect him to wash his hands before a meal, I expect them to help him do it when I'm not there. And if he's having success on the toilet I expect them to continue to encourage him, not to tell me I can try again in 6 months! (Sukkot to Pesach, 6 months.)

↑ smiley:) ↓

Sun, Feb 15 2009, 2:58 am

If some of the kids are older than what she has they'll be going to gan. I tried, minimally, to open such a group this past yr.
And there are ganim who do take such children. There is, believe it or not a child in my son's gan (kid is 3 1/2) in diapers.
I know toilet training is a process. I did it once. I still don't think the mitapelet can be forced to play the prime role in the process.

" Their job is to take care of the kids when I can't."
I think there are boundaries too. Would you want to toilet train someone else's kid? Clean someone else's poop off the floor?

↑ Seraph ↓

Sun, Feb 15 2009, 2:59 am

Marion wrote:

Most of the kids arent toilet training age until after pesach. Which is why I made that rule clear at the beginning of the year....
I dont mind taking kids to the toilet. but I can't every 10 minutes for 20 minutes at a time.

↑ Marion ↓

Sun, Feb 15 2009, 3:02 am

If you can't handle the clean up, don't work with that age children. It's certainly not any more disgusting that changing a diaper. (This is true of cloth diapers as well as disposable. Does Seraph allow cloth diapers in her daycare? Her son wears them.)

And if I was being paid to watch someone else's kid, you can bet I'd clean up after them, as necessary.

I'm guessing you send to a private gan. The registration form for the city ganim clearly states that THE PRIMARY REQUIREMENT FOR ACCEPTANCE TO GAN IS TO BE IN CONTROL OF ONE'S NEEDS (שולט בצרכיו). Either that or the child has a medical issue, in which case the gan must make an exception.