Every 10 minutes? | Imamother

RachelEve14 ↓

Sun, Feb 15 2009, 12:05 am

The gan I sent Rivka to had a kind of in the middle approach. She took the kids in undies once they were going about 50% in the toilet. So at times she would have kids in undies having 1 or 2 (or more) accidents a day, but if they sometimes could go in the toilet, they were training and accidents are part of the process. And yes Serph, if Rivka had an accident all she did was put it in a bag and send it home, I dealt with it. I agree pullups send a mixed message, and make it harder to train. If the parents are using diapers at him, the gan shouldn't be expected to do the training. But if the parents are using underwear at home, the gan needs to back it up. Daycare type gans go 6 days a week, almost the whole year. How can the kids train over 1 Shabbot? I don't think parents should be expected to wait for Pesach, Sukkot, and the 2 or 3 weeks off in Aug. to do training.

↑ smiley:) ↓

Sun, Feb 15 2009, 12:08 am

"If you can't handle the clean up, don't work with that age children."
Or the parents themselves should take more of an active role in toilet training their own children.... LIke staying home from work for 2 days followed by a weekend, like waiting for a long vacation (many daycares have on sukkot, chanukah, pesach...)

" It's certainly not any more disgusting that changing a diaper."
Not more disgusting, but more of a responsibility, and one that could come all over your living room floor, one that needs a lot more attention with a bunch of other kids around, and one which takes you out of your regular seder. Why would it be easier for a mitapelet taking care of 5 other kids, than it would be for the parent (whose responsibility it is) at home.

"(This is true of cloth diapers as well as disposable. Does Seraph allow cloth diapers in her daycare? Her son wears them.)"
That's her kid. Different story.

"And if I was being paid to watch someone else's kid, you can bet I'd clean up after them, as necessary."
I would also. Question is what is the person's responsibility, and I dont think it is to train someone else's kid for them.

"I'm guessing you send to a private gan. "
Nope

"The registration form for the city ganim clearly states that THE PRIMARY REQUIREMENT FOR ACCEPTANCE TO GAN IS TO BE IN CONTROL OF ONE'S NEEDS (שולט בצרכיו). "
This year we didnt even see a form. Last year it was not on the form. The form just asked for our address and bank account info.

"Either that or the child has a medical issue, in which case the gan must make an exception."
The child is special ed. So? I have heard the ganenet tell the parent it isn't ok.... And?

↑ Seraph ↓

Sun, Feb 15 2009, 12:13 am

Marion wrote:

What is "toilet-training age"?

My son will be 3 on Friday. We cannot give him tzitzit because he's still in diapers. He'll be 3.5 when he starts gan in September. He was 2.5 last August, and we tried, but he wasn't quite ready. By Sukkot he was 2+8, and for sure he was ready.

OTOH, my nephew (turned 3 on Friday) has been trained for almost 6 months. My neice (she'll be 3 in May) has also been trained for a few months already.

What's the official age to train?

Lets just put it this way- kids that are a year and 5 months are NOT toilet training age. Nor are 20 month olds. Yes, most of the kids here arent 2 yet. If they were, that would be another story...

↑ Marion ↓

Sun, Feb 15 2009, 12:15 am

smiley:) wrote:

No, daycare has a single day off on Chanukah, usually the Sunday. I don't know, you seem to think it's easy to take time off work. Time off for sick children (NOT the time to try to train!), time off to toilet train. There are 3 long breaks a year: a week at Sukkot, a week at Pesach, and 3 weeks in the summer. Not all kids can "wait" to be trained without having a harder time. There is an optimal time for most kids, and they are NOT calendar schedulable.

Quote:

" It's certainly not any more disgusting that changing a diaper."
Not more disgusting, but more of a responsibility, and one that could come all over your living room floor, one that needs a lot more attention with a bunch of other kids around, and one which takes you out of your regular seder. Why would it be easier for a mitapelet taking care of 5 other kids, than it would be for the parent (whose responsibility it is) at home.

Quote:

"And if I was being paid to watch someone else's kid, you can bet I'd clean up after them, as necessary."
I would also. Question is what is the person's responsibility, and I dont think it is to train someone else's kid for them.

I didn't say it would be easier. I said it's part of the job to provide backup to what's going on at home. I agree, if I'm using diapers at home it's unreasonable for me to expect the daycare to take him in underwear. But if he's in underwear at home, it's unreasonable for the daycare to return him to diapers (especially without my consent).

Quote:

"(This is true of cloth diapers as well as disposable. Does Seraph allow cloth diapers in her daycare? Her son wears them.)"
That's her kid. Different story.

Nope, not a different story. If her kid is in her daycare, same rules apply. Do you know that the licensed home daycare providers (at least where I live) are required to send their children out to other daycares so as not to have these "preference" issues?

Quote:

"The registration form for the city ganim clearly states that THE PRIMARY REQUIREMENT FOR ACCEPTANCE TO GAN IS TO BE IN CONTROL OF ONE'S NEEDS (שולט בצרכיו). "
This year we didnt even see a form. Last year it was not on the form. The form just asked for our address and bank account info.

Well, this year it's on the form. If you'd like I can scan it and post.

Last edited by Marion on Sun, Feb 15 2009, 12:29 am; edited 1 time in total

↑ Seraph ↓

Sun, Feb 15 2009, 12:15 am

Tamiri wrote:

I don't see how you can take a tiny little girl, put her on a toilet (I am assuming Seraph has just adult-sized toilets in her house) and leave her to go back to the other kids. I would never leave a child on the toilet. They can fall even if you have that ladder thing. I see a problem here...
What about a potty which you can just place anywhere?

I have that and she wouldnt even sit on it, let alone pee on it. she has a stool one with a cover for the toilet that makes her not be able to fall in.

↑ Tamiri ↓

Sun, Feb 15 2009, 12:18 am

Seraph, in that case I would leave her in the pull ups and not worry about it. She will be trained by her parents when they are ready. I don't think it's your job. They put her in pull ups - leave her in them. If she wants to "go" show her the potty and say that's where we go.
Your kids there are VERY young to be training. Which is not to say it can't be done, but you have to have a kid totally ready and parents who are very active in the process.
I am not worried about a child falling INTO the big toilet - maximum they get a wet tush. I am worried about falling OFF the toilet, onto a hard Israeli floor. Let's say she has her pull ups on and gets entangled while trying to "dismount" and you aren't there. I will repeat: you can't leave a tiny child alone in the bathroom, let alone on the toilet.

Last edited by Tamiri on Sun, Feb 15 2009, 12:20 am; edited 1 time in total

Barbara

Sun, Feb 15 2009, 12:23 am

Seraph wrote:

A girl in my playgroup is in the process of being potty trained at home. She's in pull ups here and her parents want me asking her if she needs to go to the bathroom. Practically every 10 minutes, at most 15 minutes, she says she needs to go, I take her, and then nothing.
At home, she's not making in her underwear at all.\

What do I do? keep bringing her every 10 minutes for a no show?

I think you're stuck between a rock and a hard place, as the saying goes.

If you've got kids between the ages of 18 months and 3 years, and have them for more than a couple of hours a day, you're going to encounter potty training. It can't always be done on vacations, and needs to be supported in school, gan, playgroup, whatever you want to call it.

OTOH, I take it that you don't have unlimited staff. So if you're with this one child almost constantly in the restroom, the other kids are understaffed.

What to do? Talk to the parents. What is different at home that she isn't wetting/dirtying her underwear there, but is at playgroup. If there's no easy answer there (& I doubt there is; it sounds like the parents are trained -- to keep putting her on a potty -- not the kid), tell them that you'll be as supportive as possible, but that means taking the kid to the restroom the first time she asks, then every X period (45 minutes? an hour?) thereafter, but NOT in between. You're sorry, but you have a responsibility to the other kids as well.

↑ smiley:)

Sun, Feb 15 2009, 12:24 am

"No, daycare has a single day off on Chanukah, usually the Sunday. I don't know, you seem to think it's easy to take time off work. "
First of all, people do take off 2 days a year for sillier reasons. Second of all, you my dear, are the one who seems to have a problem with people who are home. It is not the first time this week you made sucha comment (last time was to HindaRochel). I had parents who worked and my husband works (and I work minimally from home) and I am old enough to know what responsibility working entails.

" Not all kids can "wait" to be trained without having a harder time."
So some kids can be pushed a bit early. Sorry, but I think if you blame your kids increased accidents on mitaplot who dont want to do toilet training for you, you are a bit off.

There is an optimal time for most kids, and they are calendar schedulable.

"I didn't say it would be easier. I said it's part of the job to provide backup to what's going on at home. "
Maybe you should speak to the mitapelet then about what SHE thinks her responsibility is in this regard because I doubt most of them include in her list of responsibilities, training all the kids.

" I agree, if I'm using diapers at home it's unreasonable for me to expect the daycare to take him in underwear. But if he's in underwear at home, it's unreasonable for the daycare to return him to diapers (especially without my consent)."
Obviously he wasnt toilet trained enough to be in underwear. I could put underwear on my yr and 9 month old too and send him to daycare, Doesn';t mean he is toilet trained.

"Nope, not a different story. "
Sorry, but it is a different story. Her kid is hers and under her care as a mother. I have no clue if she is licensed or not but her kid is there as her kid.

"Well, this year it's on the form. If you'd like I can scan it and post.[/quote]"
I just registered on Thur and well I didn't sign a single form so being on a form means nothing if I didn't sign it.

↑ Marion ↓

Sun, Feb 15 2009, 12:36 am

Fair enough. I was just giving my perspective.

I WOULD still expect some backup from my daycare; I think it's counterproductive (and have seen it doesn't work for my son) to not be 100% consistent. It's either diapers or underwear, the combination doesn't work for him. It's also why I don't like PullUps...they're really still diapers.

However, it seems the kids you have are on the young side for training; you could tell the parents that you're not sure she's ready. If she is ready, BTW, it doesn't matter if she's in PullUps or regular diapers either, she'll still tell you if she has to go.

↑ Ima'la ↓

Sun, Feb 15 2009, 12:42 am

If the parents have her in underwear all day and send her in underwear, then I agree about backing them up. But if the parents made the decision to send her in pull-ups, I don't think Seraph has to make life harder for herself by suggesting they send her in underwear, even if that is the best objective advice.

What I meant about putting her off for longer is not to tell her to make in the pull-up, but just to say, "Ok, I'll take you soon," and just try to stall it a bit, if nothing's been happening anyway.

Btw, what does she use at home? Toilet? Potty? Toilet with seat? Could it be she's inhibitted by your toilet because she uses something else at home - so she does need to make but can't? If you expect to be training many kids in gan (or your own, eventually!) it may pay to invest in a potty or seat - otherwise ask the parents to provide.

Yes, it is a ganenet's responsibility to back up a parent on toilet training, but it's also a parent's responsibility to make sure the child's ready and not saddle the ganenet with the primary training. I did not start sending ds to gan in underwear until he'd been in underwear in the afternoons reasonably successfully for a couple of weeks. Except for one time, much earlier, when we made what turned out to be a false start - and I was sorry I had sent him to gan in underwear and made the ganenet deal with that - because he wasn't really ready and didn't have enough of a track record at home. The ganenet should not have to suffer because of overly-optimistic parents. If it's really not working out, I think the ganenet should suggest to the parents that they wait a while - or at least wait a little longer in gan. A child old enough can be trained can understand "We wear underwear at home and diapers in gan" just as they can understand underwear during the day and diapers at night, or underwear - except a diaper for a 3 hr. bus ride.

Btw, how old is this child?

↑ Marion

Sun, Feb 15 2009, 12:46 am

Ima'la wrote:

A child old enough can be trained can understand "We wear underwear at home and diapers in gan" just as they can understand underwear during the day and diapers at night, or underwear - except a diaper for a 3 hr. bus ride.

Some kids can, and some kids can't. Like I said, mine couldn't. He did much, much, much better when we just straight out took him out of the diapers. He knew what he was doing. Sure, he had accidents. But never in the car. Never in the stroller. Never at the supermarket. Never at the park. Only at home (or someone else's home). He had tubes put in his ears, under general anaesthetic, wearing underwear. He had an accident several hours later, but not while he was out. He was dry at night, and during naps. But the minute they put him back "part-time" in diapers, he lost all control. The diaper was his permission to do whatever, wherever. In underwear he could control himself.

↑ Tamiri

Sun, Feb 15 2009, 12:52 am

My inclination is to make the life of the ganenet/metapelet as easy as possible. They are, after all, watching my child for an abhorrently dismal wage. Having done the job 5 times with just one kid at a time, for zero wage, I relate to their plight. I would not want to do anything to create the least bit of animosity. The caretakers are human, after all. They have one of the worst jobs in life. Changing some else's child is never more than a necessary chore. Parent's need to reduce the yuckiness of the chore as much as possible.
I believe you should not expect more from them than you would from a friend. Once is an accident and they can deal; twice = untrained and back into diapers.

catonmylap

Sun, Feb 15 2009, 12:52 am

As a parent I would expect my daycare provider to provide at least full backup on the toilet training.

For this year, I asked a lot of questions about it, and I have no doubt if ds was ready(he's not even close), she would give full backup. But I'm paying for private mishpachton and have been ensured that the child/adult ratio will be at least 1 adult to 4 kids (and so far it's been mainly 1:3). Seraph's daycare has a much higher ratio and is a lot lot cheaper. There's only so much she can do as one caretaker with that many kids.