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Forum
-> Children's Health
-> Toilet Training
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greentiger
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 Wed, Oct 22 2008, 3:29 am
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Some could, and some just need a push since they aren't motivated enough on their own. I don't think that is abusive or damaging if done in the right way. However, I DO think that leaving a kid in diapers till 5 years old IS damaging. (unless he is REALLY not capable and even then he should be seeing specialists..)
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BeershevaBubby
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Wed, Oct 22 2008, 3:39 am
| greentiger wrote: | | Some could, and some just need a push since they aren't motivated enough on their own. I don't think that is abusive or damaging if done in the right way. However, I DO think that leaving a kid in diapers till 5 years old IS damaging. (unless he is REALLY not capable and even then he should be seeing specialists..) |
Who is tlaking about a 5 year old?
For the most part we're discussing the 3 and under crowd, which for the most part is an entirely different method and mindset than for the 4 and over kids.
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greentiger
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Wed, Oct 22 2008, 3:43 am
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No problem. I just saw that freidasima used that age with the excuse that the kid will be out of diapers by their chuppah, and I really don't think that is an excuse to wait.
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ChossidMom
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Wed, Oct 22 2008, 5:27 am
| Marion wrote: | | I also have no problem withholding cake (or some other treat that in our house anyway only big boys get). The idea of course being that if he's big enough for cake (etc.) then he's big enough to remember to use the toilet instead of the floor. |
CHILD ABUSE.
Just kidding. 
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freidasima
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Wed, Oct 22 2008, 7:57 am
I'm a firm believer that anything in the area of toilet stuff has long term repercussions with kids. I have seen this over and over at work, and I have learned about it while studying. So I'm really laid back about it. Most of the time, if a kid is being taunted by his peers about being in a diaper, well he/she is very rapidly not in a diaper after that unless of course you are putting a 2 year old in a gan with 4 year old kids which is a problem in itself.
I don't believe in holding a child forcibly on a toilet for any reason in the world unless it is life or death for his health.
As for five year olds, there are a lot of boys who still wet the bed until five. It's a boy thing usually. That's why I mentioned it. By five most kids have enough bladder control and if they don't that's the time to turn to a doctor to check out why, medically, that's what I meant.
I agree with tamiri. There are lots of fights ahead and control issues. Don't make toilet training one of them.
From personal and professional experience. If you are totally nonchalant about toilet stuff and toilet training etc, your kids will pick up on it. And if their body is healthy and there are no medical issues, they will train within half an hour if you want until they are ready. No arguments, no pain, no strain, just 100% fun except maybe for an accident on the first day, but usually that's only if you are training at twoish. If you train after three it's rare. Accidents. The bladder/bowel is just ready by then.
And just FYI in europe if you aren't talking about those nutty yekke parents who tried to train a child at 9 months (basically it was just the parent who was trained to look for a "look" in the kid and hold him/her over the potty on time, the kids were just the "objects"), I remember my grandmother telling me that kids weren't trained early at all, davka the opposite. Lots trained late. It was no big deal, there was always lots of junk to wash. homemade sanitary pads for example. Diapers just joined the rest of it.
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greentiger
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Wed, Oct 22 2008, 8:11 am
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Sorry freidasima, that really does sound great but I still have to disagree with you. It may work for most, but some kids may want to but are timid and missing that push from the parent. I have a 3 year old nephew who is still in diapers and I beilive he is fully capable of being trained but is just being lazy as long as diapers are presented as an option. I see how embarassed he is about his diapers but that still isn't enough to get him onto the toilet on his own accord.
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freidasima
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Wed, Oct 22 2008, 8:14 am
So encourage him. No one told you that you can't ask an older child if he/she wants to try. If he says "no" then no. If he says "yes" then great. If he isn't sure then suggest that you try together and if it doesn't work then not to make a big deal out of it.
Encouragement is a far cry from holding a child who is having trouble letting go, on the toilet by force while he is screaming and crying.
Do not do unto your children what you wouldn't want them to do to you.
Remember that, it will come back to haunt you in your old age.
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Beauty and the Beast
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Thu, Oct 23 2008, 12:51 am
I am in the midst of the training stages, and I want to thank you all for your remarks and interesting perception on this matter. I will use it in my approach. I am having a very hard time, but believe it will happen one day, so I am trying not to stress. Ironically, my neighbors kids were just trained, and they are younger than my son. I think I felt threatened and the competition, but realize now it is not fair to my son.
I do know mothers who do make thier kids feel really bad for making accidents. It makes me choked up when I see it, but how else do you show your displeasure to the kid who knows not to make on the floor, or in thier panties, and they did it anyway?
In general, I am a very big disciplinarian. I am scared of being too strict in this area. I hear of stories of kids holding it in till they are red in the face just to spite their mother, and all other crazy things..
I never did this yet. I need lotsa guidance. please heeeeeeeeeeelp!!!
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yersp
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Thu, Oct 23 2008, 1:25 am
| Beauty and the Beast wrote: | I hear of stories of kids holding it in till they are red in the face just to spite their mother, and all other crazy things..
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Howdya know what my son does when he's angry at me??!!!! I'm serious!! If he gets up on the wrong side after his konking out the second he gets home from cheder and I have to wake him because otherwise he'll go to sleep at 1 in the morning and then acts as nutty as ever. I have him screaming away for an hour, refusing to use the bathroom when I see it on his face he has some business to take care of. Oh, and he's all of 3.
Believe me when I say sometimes I go out of my mind! (yes, eventually he does go to the bathroom)thats only with my threat of one of the following: A- the old lady next door with the big stick will come by and babysit him (just a figment of my imagination), b- Totty wont let him in his car later in the evening when his dearest mother and sister will go for an outing and guess who'll babysit him??!! the old lady with the big stick next door!! c- the old lady next door with the big stick has a dog named puki (theres really a dog on my block with that name!) who would love some company.
and the biggest kicker of it all, 5 minutes before DH comes home from work, my lovable little boy is back, I'm all frazzled and DH wants to know why I keep on telling him that our lovely boy is giving me a hard time when he's so yummy and delicious and cute.
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yersp
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Thu, Oct 23 2008, 1:42 am
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I forgot to mention, that when DS goes nuts and doesnt want to use the bathroom I'll remind him that if he goes he'll make some bubbles. We sort of make it a game how much bubbles he can make in the toilet. Another idea is to throw in some cheerios and have some target practice and when that gets boring put in blue food coloring in the toilet and when you mix blue and yellow you get GREEN!!! Good Luck! boys can be tough to train!
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freidasima
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Thu, Oct 23 2008, 12:35 pm
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Cheerieos is bal tashchis but I like the food coloring story. Yes Boys are not easy to train. Thank Heavens DH took care of them.
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Bambamama
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Fri, Oct 24 2008, 3:31 am
So DS is doing great, B"H! I still keep him in a diaper at night, but he's been waking up completely dry.
However, he holds in his BM and waits until he's in his diaper to make, right before bedtime... Any pointers to get him to use the toilet? I dumped the BM from his diaper and flushed it with him to show him and tell him that it's meant to go in the toilet... He waved farewell, but other than that, not sure he was impressed.
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Tamiri
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Fri, Oct 24 2008, 7:09 am
Superglue him to the toilet seat? Just kidding.
Sometimes kids have a fear to let go into the toilet. If you see him ready to go in his diaper, a good idea would be to take him to the toilet and let it go in there so he sees it's not so scary. Make jokes about plops in the water, swimming lessons - basically anything to set his mind at ease.
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cubbie
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Fri, Oct 24 2008, 7:15 am
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Whatever you do it's going to be child abuse
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