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-> Household Management
-> Finances
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amother
Daylily
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 Wed, Dec 18 2024, 11:39 pm
[quote="amother Scarlet"]It doesn't make sense to have both 50k tuition and 60k housing
If the house was bought over 10 years ago then the mortgage would be much cheaper.
Yes many who have bought in past 2 years have high mortgages..those people are hopefully at stage where they are not are not paying 6 tuitions yet.
Actually we bought last year and our mortgage for a 4 bedroom 1.5 bathroom house in Flatbush is close to 7k a month, which is 72k a year! (We put down 20% after saving for 15 years). We also Bh have 7 children so full tuition would be around 65k even at the cheaper Brooklyn prices. How do we afford it? We don’t! We rent out our house because we get more for renting it than our current rent is, and pay around 30k in tuition (yes we are not fully up to date with that amount either).
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amother
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Thu, Dec 19 2024, 12:06 am
| amother OP wrote: | I already explained that we do pay full tuition, $13k-$17k per child. I wrote $60k because I assume that that’s what someone making $300k who asked for a break at my kids school, would be lying per kid.
We don’t use a loophole to pay maaser but someone with a similar income and expenses to me does, which is why I wrote it (before my “reveal”). We pay about $30k maaser to tzedaka. |
Are you bored? It’s an anonymous forum, making up scenarios totally undermines your point.
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amother
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Thu, Dec 19 2024, 12:26 am
Yep. DH and I have had this conversation.
He’ll be finishing residency next spring iyh
Salaries in his field start around 400-450k
Dh is hoping I’ll be able to stop working but I’m skeptical.
We currently have Medicaid, tuition breaks and other subsidies. We’re going to have to start paying back loans which is another[quote]
What medical starting salary is 400-500?
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chestnut
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Thu, Dec 19 2024, 12:58 am
| amother Scarlet wrote: |
I can give you a rough breakdown of my family of 7 living on 8k post tax. In Lakewood. |
Curious to see it. Any govt programs involved?
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amother
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Thu, Dec 19 2024, 1:08 am
| amother Gold wrote: | @holly, I just read through your post history (the arrows are so convenient) and I'm so sorry for what you are going through. This thread must have been very hard for you to read.
Is there any way you can get financial or practical help? Maybe you can ask Yael if you can post for us to help you out so you can see your doctor? Is there any way you can get on Medicaid (your income seems low enough). There are so many frum organizations, have you reached out to anybody? Can you get Tomchei Shabbos?
My heart goes out to you and I hope your financial situation improves in the very near future. |
Thankyou but no I'm not involving Yael or anyone on this site
I'm not a complainer and I've never posted on imamother about this situation. It's just that these repeated threads by people earning so so much more then most of us complaining is really getting to me.
And then this OP faking it and making stuff up for what purpose?
What was the point?
So so tone deaf!!!
I refuse to be seen as a tzedoka case. I do have a family member I turn to for help when I'm desperate and once in a while I'll turn to a tzedoka organisation but I really hate asking for and taking tzedoka. Somehow I get by. It would just really be nice to not have to worry all the time.
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amother
Lightpink
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Thu, Dec 19 2024, 3:15 am
$60k mortgage & property tax
$60k tuition
$24k groceries.
$12k utilities
$24k medical & dental COULD U DO REFUAH PLANS INSTEAD?
$6k cars (insurance, gas etc)
$6k home & life insurance
$22k maaser NOT OBLIGATORY. GIVE TZEDAKA INSTEAD
$12k camp ($2k/kid) LUXURY
TOTAL: $226k
Income is now completely depleted.
And many of the above estimates are actually underestimated.
Here are just SOME of the things that are NOT included in the above list of expenses:
CLOTHING. SECOND HAND
TOILETRIES. ISNT THIS PART OF GROCERY EXPENSES? Bar soap by the way lasts must longer than liquid. I use makeup sparingly.
NECESSARY HOME REPAIRS. Can you find cheap handyman? I find older ones charge less.
Haircuts. My Dh does this for boys. I do girls.
Chol hamoed trips. Go to free places like parks. Make it exciting by introducing challenges contests games.
Landscaping. Luxury.
Cleaning help. Luxury except when medically you’re unable. Involve children more. It’s good for them to a large extent when you keep it chilled out. 15-30 min a day only! Not a big deal! Play music.
Seminary. Bar mitzvahs. Weddings. Not there yet…
Vacations. LUXURY
Birthday presents.LUXURY
Shalach manos. DO HOMEMADE. KEEP IT TO THE MITZVA. SMILE AND SAY THANK YOU TO PEOPLE WHO GIVE YOU AND GIVE THEM CARD THAT YOU GIVE TZEDOKAH IN THEIR ZECHUS.
Chanuka tips. I HEAR YOU! It’s hard!
Lulav and esrog. Can you cut from food budget. For instance 2 weeks no snacks? If you buy immediately before chag it is super cheap.
Sheitels. GEMACH/exchange.
School supplies. GEMACH
Extracurriculars. LUXURY. THERES A LOT YOU CAN TEACH YOUR KIDS YOURSELF.
Mikvah. FEEL THE PINCH TOO.
Diapers. WE USE GOVT FREE ONES FROM PANTRY SINCE WE DONT QUALIFY FIANCIALLY FOR OTHER GOVT AID.
LITERALLY EVERYTHING ELSE.[/quote]
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amother
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Thu, Dec 19 2024, 7:39 am
[quote="amother Bone"]Yep. DH and I have had this conversation.
He’ll be finishing residency next spring iyh
Salaries in his field start around 400-450k
Dh is hoping I’ll be able to stop working but I’m skeptical.
We currently have Medicaid, tuition breaks and other subsidies. We’re going to have to start paying back loans which is another[quote]
What medical starting salary is 400-500??
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amother
Winterberry
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Thu, Dec 19 2024, 10:14 am
| amother Oldlace wrote: | Only thing that is "high" is tuition
$60,000 after taxes is closer to $80,000 pre-tax.
Not suggesting it isn't a necessity but it is the portion of her budget that is out of line with her income. |
$22,000 in Masser in not HIGH ??? When she is saying that she is going in the hole every month and has no extra money for basics after her set monthly bills. I'm sorry but Masser is not suppose to be before you can pay for you and your 6 kids needs. It just doesn't make sense to me.
Start throwing the tomatos
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amother
Eggplant
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Thu, Dec 19 2024, 10:14 am
| amother OP wrote: | $300k pre-tax
$225k after tax
6 kids
Tri state (Monsey/brooklyn/lakewood)
$60k mortgage & property tax
$60k tuition
$24k groceries
$12k utilities
$24k medical & dental
$6k cars (insurance, gas etc)
$6k home & life insurance
$22k maaser
$12k camp ($2k/kid)
TOTAL: $226k
Income is now completely depleted.
And many of the above estimates are actually underestimated.
Here are just SOME of the things that are NOT included in the above list of expenses:
CLOTHING. TOILETRIES. NECESSARY HOME REPAIRS. Haircuts. Chol hamoed trips. Landscaping. Cleaning help. Seminary. Bar mitzvahs. Weddings. Vacations. Birthday presents. Shalach manos. Chanuka tips. Lulav and esrog. Sheitels. School supplies. Extracurriculars. Mikvah. Diapers. LITERALLY EVERYTHING ELSE. |
I can’t tell you how to increase income, and when making $300K you probably feel entitled to spend more, but here are a few ways some others save:
75K in taxes, especially when you listed so many potentially tax deductible expenses, is way too high. Speak to a good accountant.
60K mortgage- Many people are paying closer to 30-40K.
60K tuition is a little high in the tristate for 6 children, depending on ages and schools. A thousand a month per child per school? If you’re truly struggling you can ask for a break.
12K utilities is a lot. Personally I pay around 6K.
24K medical and dental seems on the higher end for sure. I don’t know if you have special circumstances?
5K Life insurance (assuming home insurance is around 1K) seems high for basic term.
22K maaser- speak to your LOR about only deducting after basic necessities.
12K camp- seems high.
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amother
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Thu, Dec 19 2024, 11:46 am
| amother Mustard wrote: | | Are you bored? It’s an anonymous forum, making up scenarios totally undermines your point. |
I know, right? I can't believe I fell for this.
OP, you realize your entire premise got turned on its head multiple times on this thread, right? There were a bunch of posters who said they're making a lot less than you with a lot more kids and they're just fine. It's doable.
While it may be too late for many of us, for the younger ones here, make decisions early in your marriage that will make sense later on:
- Your chosen place of residence. The OP created the absolute worse scenario, I.e. high mortgage and high tuition. When you're choosing a place to live, make sure it has at least one of the following: 1. A fabulous job market 2. Low tuition rates 3. Affordable homes. For example, you can live in lkwd which doesn't have the best housing market these days but has a fairly decent job market (it has seen better days and will hopefully see great ones ahead) and very affordable tuition compared to many other communities. Or, you can move to an OOT community that has cheap housing but expensive tuition. Make sure you have at least one of these or you'll end up like the OP!
-Health insurance. This can be a killer in a large frum family with so many other crippling expenses. The best solutions are workplace insurance (again, make choices that make this possible) or a healthshare program like Refuah.
-Invest/save early. Again, too late for many of us, but investing as early as possible is the key to long-term wealth.
-Live like you're poor. No matter what kind of income you have. Posters on much smaller incomes than the OP are managing just fine because they know their income level and they're living according to their means. When you're bringing home a nice fat paycheck every month it's easy to fall prey to lifestyle creep, but you need to remember that expenses often rise with income (higher tax bracket, no tuition breaks etc) so you may not be that much better off. Continue living like you're making less, which can mean something else for everyone, but will ensure you don't end up like the OP.
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amother
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Thu, Dec 19 2024, 12:11 pm
| amother DarkOrange wrote: | I know, right? I can't believe I fell for this.
OP, you realize your entire premise got turned on its head multiple times on this thread, right? There were a bunch of posters who said they're making a lot less than you with a lot more kids and they're just fine. It's doable.
While it may be too late for many of us, for the younger ones here, make decisions early in your marriage that will make sense later on:
- Your chosen place of residence. The OP created the absolute worse scenario, I.e. high mortgage and high tuition. When you're choosing a place to live, make sure it has at least one of the following: 1. A fabulous job market 2. Low tuition rates 3. Affordable homes. For example, you can live in lkwd which doesn't have the best housing market these days but has a fairly decent job market (it has seen better days and will hopefully see great ones ahead) and very affordable tuition compared to many other communities. Or, you can move to an OOT community that has cheap housing but expensive tuition. Make sure you have at least one of these or you'll end up like the OP!
-Health insurance. This can be a killer in a large frum family with so many other crippling expenses. The best solutions are workplace insurance (again, make choices that make this possible) or a healthshare program like Refuah.
-Invest/save early. Again, too late for many of us, but investing as early as possible is the key to long-term wealth.
-Live like you're poor. No matter what kind of income you have. Posters on much smaller incomes than the OP are managing just fine because they know their income level and they're living according to their means. When you're bringing home a nice fat paycheck every month it's easy to fall prey to lifestyle creep, but you need to remember that expenses often rise with income (higher tax bracket, no tuition breaks etc) so you may not be that much better off. Continue living like you're making less, which can mean something else for everyone, but will ensure you don't end up like the OP. |
I wish I can bold your libe above "you wont be that much better off"
I beliece thats op's point.
Sure, she can stay out of debt by wearing used clothes and not sending to seminary.
But thats what op is pointing out, shes not able to live a typical frum lifestyle despite the " high " salary.
Its such a tease. You think this next raise will finally be the one, but you never quite make it because that money is eaten up by taxes, inflation, losing subsidies, etc.
And sure, at 300k if your mortgage is not too bad you get to cut back on the hand me downs (you have teens by now, so running put of options anyway) and grocery shop a little easier....still living quite frugally.
Investing early is great but many people have incomes a smidgen in front of their expenses. We have some savings from the early years, but enough for bar mitzvahs and out first chasuna. not to invest for "wealth". [Not enough to expand our tjny old house either if we want to afford said simchos]
*** this is w2 300k. Those with their own businesses can finegal for schools and govt to pay less.
PS. Which oot community are you paying less than 60k in tuition?
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amother
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Thu, Dec 19 2024, 12:15 pm
| amother DarkRed wrote: | I wish I can bold your libe above "you wont be that much better off"
I beliece thats op's point.
Sure, she can stay out of debt by wearing used clothes and not sending to seminary.
But thats what op is pointing out, shes not able to live a typical frum lifestyle despite the " high " salary.
Its such a tease. You think this next raise will finally be the one, but you never quite make it because that money is eaten up by taxes, inflation, losing subsidies, etc.
And sure, at 300k if your mortgage is not too bad you get to cut back on the hand me downs (you have teens by now, so running put of options anyway) and grocery shop a little easier....still living quite frugally.
Investing early is great but many people have incomes a smidgen in front of their expenses. We have some savings from the early years, but enough for bar mitzvahs and out first chasuna. not to invest for "wealth". [Not enough to expand our tjny old house either if we want to afford said simchos]
*** this is w2 300k. Those with their own businesses can finegal for schools and govt to pay less.
PS. Which oot community are you paying less than 60k in tuition? |
I never said OOT tuition is cheap; I literally said the opposite. That's why I wrote that if you're moving out of town to a place with higher tuition, make sure you at least get cheap housing. If housing and tuition are both high, you're setting yourself up for an impossible situation. People need to think about these things when they're settling down, which is usually before they're paying 6 tuitions.
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amother
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Thu, Dec 19 2024, 12:16 pm
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I think it would also be helpful to realize that OP is making $205K. Not $300K. Taxes and Maaser are taken out before you can spend a cent on necessities or wants.
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amother
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Thu, Dec 19 2024, 12:24 pm
| amother DarkOrange wrote: | | I never said OOT tuition is cheap; I literally said the opposite. That's why I wrote that if you're moving out of town to a place with higher tuition, make sure you at least get cheap housing. If housing and tuition are both high, you're setting yourself up for an impossible situation. People need to think about these things when they're settling down, which is usually before they're paying 6 tuitions. |
Where do you have this? As a rule, low tuition and/or housing goes along with low salaries. And vice versa.
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amother
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Thu, Dec 19 2024, 12:37 pm
OOT tuition is usually higher than bklyn or Lakewood bc dealing with more less donors, and basically no breaks for over a certain income 🤪…
15k to 18k elementary tution.
On 150k-200k it’s a struggle but doable living simply.
I thought 300k is more wiggle room. I guess the lifestyle that comes with it adds up
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amother
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Thu, Dec 19 2024, 12:38 pm
| amother Cornsilk wrote: | | Where do you have this? As a rule, low tuition and/or housing goes along with low salaries. And vice versa. |
I honestly don't know if you'll come out ahead with a higher salary and higher COL. OP is the perfect example; she's earning a nice income but high tuition and housing costs eat it right up. So if you move somewhere like Cleveland where you can have low tuition and a fairly decent housing market, you can be okay on a lower salary. This can work if you move somewhere else that has EITHER very low housing or low tuition, again, even on a lower salary.
Also, there are so many jobs that can be done remotely these days.
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amother
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Thu, Dec 19 2024, 12:42 pm
| amother DarkOrange wrote: | I honestly don't know if you'll come out ahead with a higher salary and higher COL. OP is the perfect example; she's earning a nice income but high tuition and housing costs eat it right up. So if you move somewhere like Cleveland where you can have low tuition and a fairly decent housing market, you can be okay on a lower salary. This can work if you move somewhere else that has EITHER very low housing or low tuition, again, even on a lower salary.
Also, there are so many jobs that can be done remotely these days. |
Usually not those earning $300k.
So OP can either live in the tri-state area on this salary and be juuuust making it, or she can do the same in Cleveland on a lower salary. Either way she's not coming out ahead.
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amother
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Thu, Dec 19 2024, 12:54 pm
| amother Cornsilk wrote: | Usually not those earning $300k.
So OP can either live in the tri-state area on this salary and be juuuust making it, or she can do the same in Cleveland on a lower salary. Either way she's not coming out ahead. |
Who's talking about coming out ahead? We're talking about making it. Make sure you settle somewhere where this is possible. Again, OP chose a place that has both very high housing prices AND high tuition rates.
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amother
Lightyellow
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Thu, Dec 19 2024, 12:55 pm
| amother OP wrote: | Well it’s not that we’re living off of savings, it’s that we have income from our savings. Also, this is the first year we actually used the income from our savings toward expenses. We don’t anticipate doing that this coming year.
Also, we can technically pay off some of our mortgage, which would lower our monthly payments and we would still have a nice amount of savings left. |
How do you have income from your savings?
I’m finding this thread very insightful.
I’m young with one baby, saving and investing as much as we can and I’d love to know what more I can do
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that I don’t know! I didn’t even know there was a community in Savanna. Everyone who has left here is headed to Cleveland just like everyone else lol