$300k IS NOT ENOUGH!!

amother

↑ Gold ↓

Wed, Dec 18 2024, 3:25 pm

Trademark wrote:

That's not relevant to what I'm saying.

It seems like flaunting, and in bad taste when so many people are struggling to post how look at how much I earn and how comfortable I are, but in theory it would not be enough.

Most posters are not living in theory but in reality, as evidenced by many many threads, so that's why I think it's in bad taste.

Exactly the point, 300k is NOT comfortable for a large frum family, if they were paying a higher mortgage, medical expenses (not subsidized), high taxes, etc.

The things OP posted are NOT crazy expensive things, just a regular normal lifestyle, and 300k is NOT ENOUGH!

Very eye opening.

amother

↑ Gold ↓

Wed, Dec 18 2024, 3:26 pm

amother OP wrote:

I definitely hear your point. I didn’t intend to offend anyone. I often hear people making comments about how those making more than them must be wasteful of their money if they’re “not making it” so I wanted to at the record straight. I invite ANYONE who has said on this thread or in their own mind that I’m crazy or wasteful for “not making it” on $300k to take my budget and tell me EXACTLY how they would afford everything that needs to be paid (without living an extreme life of poverty).

I also wanted to start an important conversation about how it’s almost impossible for the average family these days to cover frum life. What is the solution???

And another important point I want to make is the importance of young frum couples “hitting the ground running” when it comes to finances! The money you are able to save in your early years may mean the difference between sinking or swimming once your family grows!

Really good question! What is the solution?

amother

↑ OP ↓

Wed, Dec 18 2024, 3:27 pm

amother Gold wrote:

Ok, you didn't have to click on this thread if you're bored of the topic...

I'm actually finding this thread very helpful. Its important to see how difficult frum life is at the moment for everybody, and people think that if they were making 300k a year, they would be doing ok.

They dont realize how much taxes are owed on that income, how high full tuition can be for a regulat size family, how much the expenses that we take for granted (normal home in frum neighborhood, camp, food, clothing), is so hugely expensive nowadays!

Everyone's struggling nowadays, its hard!

Thank you I appreciate your post! Everything you said rings true.

And yes no one has to click on this thread if they don’t want to, the title makes it very clear what it is about.

↑ Trademark

Wed, Dec 18 2024, 3:27 pm

If you read my posts on here, I'm usually someone who fargins others and not bitter or resentful of people who have more. I see no problem with people asking questions about high end purchases etc

But this feels like a bait and switch. The thread was obstentiously started to discuss how hard it is even with a higher salary, and then we find out that the OP is not even struggling and is actually pretty comfortable. So it's not hard with a high salary after all according to her own experience. It's insulting to people who are actually struggling, especially the ones who have much less income.

We don't need to hear from a financially comfortable person, because people who are actually struggling are continually making the point.

amother

↑ Fuchsia ↓

Wed, Dec 18 2024, 3:28 pm

amother OP wrote:

OK EVERYONE here is what I did NOT tell you:

BH we actually have NO financial worries. This is because we have been making $300kish for a very long time, long before our expenses were so high. Back when we had just 2 babies and were renting for $1500/month. Therefore we had many years where we were able to save $150k+ per year. For this reason, we would be able to pay off a huge chunk of our mortgage right now if we wanted to. It’s not worth it for us to do so, since we are making money off of our invested money. B’derech hateva, we will also be having significant increases in income next year and in the years to come.

For these reasons we BH BH have no problem paying for all of our needs and most of our wants.

HOWEVER

That does not negate the reason I posted this. If not for our mazel and hard work earning all this money when we were younger, our situation would be very different. We LITERALLY would not be making it on $300k.

And THAT is the reason I made this post, I want people to understand that point!! People who kvetch about families not paying full tuition, people who kvetch about people who have lifestyle creep and overspend- they don’t understand the reality. Maybe they’re on government programs and don’t realize the true cost of things, maybe they bought a house even 6 years ago and have no clue how much mortgages are now.

The point is, families in the tri state area with 5+ kids need to be making literally hundreds of thousands to cover expenses. And how can we reasonably expect all frum families to be in the top 1% of earners in the US???

I don’t know what the solution is but I worry every night for my siblings and friends and how they will ever make it.

Thanks for the follow up!

So why aren't you paying full tuition?

amother

↑ OP ↓

Wed, Dec 18 2024, 3:28 pm

amother Gold wrote:

I'm sorry for your circumstances and I don't mean to hurt you, but most people at that income level with a lot of kids are living on other people's money, which in this case, would be OP 's money. Both her tax money and her maaser. I think this is an important point to keep in mind if you start feeling jealousy. If not for people like OP, the poor people would be living in shacks and eating very minimally.

We give $30k+ a year to maaser, much of it to causes similar to what you described.

We will also be paying $100k in taxes in 2025!!! And if you say, well with your savings you can afford that- we would be paying that regardless if we had zero savings!

amother

↑ OP ↓

Wed, Dec 18 2024, 3:34 pm

Trademark wrote:

You’re twisting this. I did not lie about our salary or expenses (actually I listed expenses lower than what we actually pay). The only thing I omitted was that we have a lot of money in savings precisely because we have been earning this income for a long time, before our expenses were high. Most people don’t have that situation.

The reality STANDS that $300k can barely cover average middle class living for a frum family with 6 kids. There is no bait and switch.

mig100

Wed, Dec 18 2024, 3:35 pm

amother OP wrote:

Again, my post was not intended to get pity, or to imply I’m the worst off, or anything like that. My post wasn’t either to say that I’m living the most extreme poverty stricken life on $300k. You’re taking it the wrong way.

How about this? Please take my $225k post tax income and give me a realistic budget for a family of 6 in the tri-state area. Make sure you include the non negotiables like $60k tuition, health insurance, cars to commute to work, etc. And make sure you show me how I actually can afford all those extra things that you can’t, like overseas flights and new Sheitels.

Most people paying 60k tuition. At least 5 or 6 kids in school hopefully bought a house more than 5 years ago.

It's not so likely to have both 60k intuition and a 6k mortgage.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Wed, Dec 18 2024, 3:36 pm

amother Fuchsia wrote:

Thanks for the follow up!

So why aren't you paying full tuition?

I am, I clarified in a subsequent post that I pay between $13k-$17k per child in tuition. But I estimated that a family in my position without savings who would ask for a break would likely be paying about $10k per child, in the particular school my kids go to.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Wed, Dec 18 2024, 3:39 pm

mig100 wrote:

Most people paying 60k tuition. At least 5 or 6 kids in school hopefully bought a house more than 5 years ago.

It's not so likely to have both 60k intuition and a 6k mortgage.

I have a $5k mortgage not $6k.

And the people buying houses now or in the past few years, with 3-4 kids, will IyH have 6 kids in a few years. Are you saying that once the families who bought houses recently have 6 kids, average salaries will rise to $500k? Or are you saying those families should have less kids since their mortgages are higher?

And BTW, in Monsey where average full tuition is $13k or higher, and a family with $300k income isn’t getting breaks, you’re paying at least $52k tuition for just 4 kids. When I had just 3 kids in school I was paying $41k tuition.

amother

↑ Holly ↓

Wed, Dec 18 2024, 3:40 pm

amother Gold wrote:

You write "people think that if they were making 300k a year, they would be doing ok. "

OP included in her original post that she didn't write in her budget her spendings on vacation, sheitels, etc. a bunch of things that I wish I could be complaining about having to spend on.

So yeah If I was getting 300ka year and having those extra expenses I'd be doing more then ok in my books.

People who get to go away on vacations and buy sheitels every year don't know what struggling is

amother

Hyssop

Wed, Dec 18 2024, 3:43 pm

Today, I accept the fact that Hashem wants me to feel the financial crunch.
I know that I am putting in the most hishtadlus I can whether that is working towards earning more or cutting back.
This situation is difficult and hard. Especially because I have children who depend on me.
But I realize I am not in control.

I am trying to take it one day at a time. What can I do today to move in the right direction?
Every bill that I can pay, I remind myself, Hashem has allowed me the ability to take care of this need and I am so so grateful for that. I know there are many individuals worse off than me.

I am open to letting Hashem take care of me in ways I couldn't imagine. With each surprise I am humbled and grateful.

This situation is a test and I am trying my best each and every day.

amother

↑ Holly ↓

Wed, Dec 18 2024, 3:44 pm

Either way what's the point of trying to prove that 300k isn't enough anyway? You think you are making us lower income people feel better? "Don't worry, your aren't the only ones struggling, even if you earn 300k you still struggle. Poor mei have all these expenses, going away on vacation is so expensive"

Nah that's not helping

amother

↑ OP ↓

Wed, Dec 18 2024, 3:45 pm

amother Holly wrote:

You completely misread my post. I said that my list of barebones expenses, which used up my ENTIRE income, did NOT even include clothes, toiletries, necessary home repairs, haircuts, or literally ANYTHING other than mortgage, tuition, food, cars, insurance, and utilities.

Meaning that my income is completely used up before I can even think of clothes or toiletries, let alone sheitel or vacations.

amother

↑ Gold ↓

Wed, Dec 18 2024, 3:47 pm

amother Holly wrote:

She specifically said that NONE OF THESE THINGS ARE INCLUDED IN THE BUDGET ! On 300k a year you can't even afford clothing, let alone vacations and shaitels! That's exactly what she said!

amother

↑ OP ↓

Wed, Dec 18 2024, 3:48 pm

amother Holly wrote:

I already answered this question multiple times on this thread, if you still want to have a victim attitude that’s on you. This thread has nothing to do with those families in poverty.

small bean ↓

Wed, Dec 18 2024, 3:48 pm

amother OP wrote:

You need a financial counselor because you should be better off then that on 300k.

amother

↑ Holly ↓

Wed, Dec 18 2024, 3:48 pm

amother OP wrote:

Sorry if I misunderstood. It sounded like you were spending on those things not not including it in your budget.

Tell me, do you go on vacations? Do you have cleaning help? How often do you buy a sheitel?