$300k IS NOT ENOUGH!!

amother

↑ Cyclamen ↓

Wed, Dec 18 2024, 5:51 pm

amother DarkRed wrote:

THAT IS OP'S POINT!!!!!! YES IM YELLING.

Your tone was "I can do it"

Until your ncome is well over 300k, probably something like 400k, you are basically treading water as your income is eaten up by your subsidies going away (like jerseycare!), your scholarships going away, and your taxes going up.up.up!

Its hard to believe and so frustrating as you think, this raise, finally, ill have some breathing room. And NOPE!

People talk about tax refunds, well I pay taxes every year even though Im on a W2 (I know o can fix that by withholding more, but thats not the point. Thats just timing)

Also, as most people are not reaching the higher income until theyre older, life costs go up as as well. Big people eat more than only little kiddos. way way more.
High school costs more than elementary. Teen clothes cost more and are harder to scrimp on.
This eats whatever extra was left and then some. So bh income has gone up to.somewhat cover, but typically NOT ENOUGH!

But why are you yelling what did I do?
I can do it attitude with 150 (plus jersey care for kids) family of 6

I'm sorry! Was just trying to be helpful

amother

↑ OP ↓

Wed, Dec 18 2024, 5:53 pm

amother OP wrote:

OK EVERYONE here is what I did NOT tell you:

BH we actually have NO financial worries. This is because we have been making $300kish for a very long time, long before our expenses were so high. Back when we had just 2 babies and were renting for $1500/month. Therefore we had many years where we were able to save $150k+ per year. For this reason, we would be able to pay off a huge chunk of our mortgage right now if we wanted to. It’s not worth it for us to do so, since we are making money off of our invested money. B’derech hateva, we will also be having significant increases in income next year and in the years to come.

For these reasons we BH BH have no problem paying for all of our needs and most of our wants.

HOWEVER

That does not negate the reason I posted this. If not for our mazel and hard work earning all this money when we were younger, our situation would be very different. We LITERALLY would not be making it on $300k.

And THAT is the reason I made this post, I want people to understand that point!! People who kvetch about families not paying full tuition, people who kvetch about people who have lifestyle creep and overspend- they don’t understand the reality. Maybe they’re on government programs and don’t realize the true cost of things, maybe they bought a house even 6 years ago and have no clue how much mortgages are now.

The point is, families in the tri state area with 5+ kids need to be making literally hundreds of thousands to cover expenses. And how can we reasonably expect all frum families to be in the top 1% of earners in the US???

I don’t know what the solution is but I worry every night for my siblings and friends and how they will ever make it.

P.S. We pay way more than $60k in tuition. We pay full, which is $13k - $17k a kid.

amother

↑ Holly ↓

Wed, Dec 18 2024, 5:54 pm

amother OP wrote:

Actually that is exactly the point. The point is that I gave you a very basic breakdown of very normal expenses for a frum family and showed you clearly how $300k doesn’t cover them. I assume you have assistance for healthcare, tuition, possibly food?

I have a 2,800 square foot house built in the 60s. I walk a mile to shul. 1 other frum Jew on my block. Sure if I had to I would sell and rent a 2 bedroom apartment for $2k. BH I don’t have to. But my point is that no part of my life is extravagant or luxurious. My point is that it’s insane how much money it costs to live what most would consider a regular middle class lifestyle. My point was NOT to get pity from anyone or to say I’m poor. My point was NOT to say that I am struggling more than you. My point was NOT to say that I am living the most threadbare existence possible. Not at all.

I hope you see a yeshua soon.

I'll take the 300k and give up she assistance in a heartbeat!!!

Incidentally, I don't go away on vacation,
wear the same 2 threadbare shirts all week (I manage to look decent) so that my kids can eat and I can buy them clothes.
Rarely get new sheitels,
chol hamoed trips are only the free kind,
count the exact pieces of meat or fish I'm making per person so there is no waste,
don't get to see my kids overseas often enough even when one of them is crying to me they miss me and want me to come,
hardly give my kids Chanuka gelt
deny myself lots of stuff others wouldn't blink at..
I have to make calculations of whether it's worth it to spend this $10 on a treat for my kids for Shabbos. I need to calculate if I can afford guests for Shabbos, and I often cut costs on other necessities in order to be able to do so.
I'm meant to meet with my specialist for a follow up check up and I can't afford so I cancelled. I'm meant to have my 2 yearly assessment done that will put my out of pocket 500 so I'm not doing it. I'm meant to replace some medical equipment as my current one is worn out but I'm pushing it as far as it goes

I don't get cleaning help, not even for Pesach
Should I go on?

No one knows! My house looks good, I had help with fixing it up, I'd rather have been able to do it on my own. But looks are deceiving.

I look decent my kids look decent they don't go hungry but no one knows how I have to check my bank account every time I go shopping and watch it like a hawk.
No one knows the reason I'm struggling with work is because of an unseen health condition that severely impacts my ability to function
I get it, life is expensive, but you sound like you are still managing to pay everything you need to pay plus the extras.
I don't have the extras, I managed to save 1200 the past year but then had to dip into it to cover stuff the kids needed.

I don't begrudge you your difficulties. I'm just sick of seeing these posts crop up all the time making me feel like I really must be destitute in comparison.

It's hurtful

amother

↑ DarkRed ↓

Wed, Dec 18 2024, 5:57 pm

amother OP wrote:

Haha. Crossposted with you op.

I had actually taken out a line saying tjis only works if you were earning fhis salary early on, which very few are.

amother

Lily

Wed, Dec 18 2024, 5:57 pm

amother OP wrote:

Curious, how much per year approx are you drawing from savings? Are you drawing only investment gains or also the core original?

Trademark ↓

Wed, Dec 18 2024, 5:57 pm

Honestly what's the point of this thread?

If you do a quick search you will see multiple threads about people making this amount or close to it and say they are struggling. This is a topic that comes up frequently.

It's one thing if you are struggling to post asking advice, but I think it's in bad taste when you are not even struggling and anyone who has been on the site for more than 2 weeks would have already seen a few very similar threads.

You make way more than most people would ever dream of, you are comfortable and put away a lot of savings, honestly I think this is in bad taste. It feels like you're not making any point just flaunting.

amother

↑ Cyclamen

Wed, Dec 18 2024, 6:01 pm

amother OP wrote:

I think she was “yelling” because you started your original post saying that you’re providing a budget so “people see it’s possible”. And she’s arguing that it’s not really possible because you have a lot of financial factors going for you that others don’t.

I don't get it of course I have going for me . As do you!
From the beginning I made it clear that you can't really cut out and I was wowed.

I don't have any cleaning help ever !
I don't go on vacations I'm careful in the grocery store. I glady take all the hand me downs I can get.
I doubt you have to do all that. And again I'm not judging I'm genuinely happy for you but at the end of the day we're both living pretty tight and that's it.
But BH!
No hard feelings but don't want to be the cause of getting someone riled up.

amother

Gold ↓

Wed, Dec 18 2024, 6:05 pm

Trademark wrote:

Ok, you didn't have to click on this thread if you're bored of the topic...

I'm actually finding this thread very helpful. Its important to see how difficult frum life is at the moment for everybody, and people think that if they were making 300k a year, they would be doing ok.

They dont realize how much taxes are owed on that income, how high full tuition can be for a regulat size family, how much the expenses that we take for granted (normal home in frum neighborhood, camp, food, clothing), is so hugely expensive nowadays!

Everyone's struggling nowadays, its hard!

amother

↑ Gold ↓

Wed, Dec 18 2024, 6:09 pm

amother Holly wrote:

That's not the point. I live on about 30k (I'm a single mother and looking for more work but even then I might have 50k) in an expensive area. Yes thankfully I have a much smaller mortgage but if I had such a huge one I'd re- think where I was living. My main point is I wouldn't go complaining in front of people who earn so much less then me. 300k is not considered low income regardless of your life circumstances.

I'm sorry for your circumstances and I don't mean to hurt you, but most people at that income level with a lot of kids are living on other people's money, which in this case, would be OP 's money. Both her tax money and her maaser. I think this is an important point to keep in mind if you start feeling jealousy. If not for people like OP, the poor people would be living in shacks and eating very minimally.

↑ Trademark ↓

Wed, Dec 18 2024, 6:09 pm

amother Gold wrote:

You missed the point if you think if it's about if I'm bored about this topic or not.

amother

↑ Begonia ↓

Wed, Dec 18 2024, 6:10 pm

amother Gold wrote:

NO ONE IS LIVING ON ANYONE ELSE'S TAX MONEY. Unless they're getting Social Security payments, in which case, they earned that money over the years.

Take a look at how the US government divvies up your tax payments. You'll find it eye opening.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Wed, Dec 18 2024, 6:13 pm

amother Pewter wrote:

Can you cut landscaping? If you're struggling financially that's the first thing O would cut. Buying your own mower costs less than paying someone else regularly.

I never said I’m paying for landscaping. My list of barebones expenses did not include landscaping or anything in that category, and income still didn’t cover this basic expenses.

BUT

As you can see from my recent post my income actually does comfortably cover landscaping. HOWEVER, if not for prudent financial planning early on and Mazel, I would’ve be able to.

And you’re forgetting, most people making $300k a year don’t have a lot of extra time for things like mowing the lawn.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Wed, Dec 18 2024, 6:18 pm

amother Holly wrote:

Again, my post was not intended to get pity, or to imply I’m the worst off, or anything like that. My post wasn’t either to say that I’m living the most extreme poverty stricken life on $300k. You’re taking it the wrong way.

How about this? Please take my $225k post tax income and give me a realistic budget for a family of 6 in the tri-state area. Make sure you include the non negotiables like $60k tuition, health insurance, cars to commute to work, etc. And make sure you show me how I actually can afford all those extra things that you can’t, like overseas flights and new Sheitels.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Wed, Dec 18 2024, 6:20 pm

amother Lily wrote:

Curious, how much per year approx are you drawing from savings? Are you drawing only investment gains or also the core original?

Currently draw approx $36k investment gains on approx $700k investments. Don’t need to withdraw more than that (this is the first year our expenses are as high as I listed). As much as some people on this thread can’t believe, we actually live relatively frugally, a lot more frugally than many many people we know who have similar incomes to ours yet don’t have the financial cushion in the bank that we have.

And our income going up to $370k in January with similar large jumps expected in the next few Januarys IyH

↑ Trademark ↓

Wed, Dec 18 2024, 6:22 pm

amother Gold wrote:

It seems to me that you missed the point of her OP.

That's not relevant to what I'm saying.

It seems like flaunting, and in bad taste when so many people are struggling to post how look at how much I earn and how comfortable I are, but in theory it would not be enough. And look our income will jump by another 70k soon, for many people 70k is their entire income or close to it.

Most posters are not living in theory but in reality, as evidenced by many many threads, so that's why I think it's in bad taste.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Wed, Dec 18 2024, 6:24 pm

Trademark wrote:

I definitely hear your point. I didn’t intend to offend anyone. I often hear people making comments about how those making more than them must be wasteful of their money if they’re “not making it” so I wanted to at the record straight. I invite ANYONE who has said on this thread or in their own mind that I’m crazy or wasteful for “not making it” on $300k to take my budget and tell me EXACTLY how they would afford everything that needs to be paid (without living an extreme life of poverty).

I also wanted to start an important conversation about how it’s almost impossible for the average family these days to cover frum life. What is the solution???

And another important point I want to make is the importance of young frum couples “hitting the ground running” when it comes to finances! The money you are able to save in your early years may mean the difference between sinking or swimming once your family grows!