$300k IS NOT ENOUGH!!

boysrus

Wed, Dec 18 2024, 5:14 pm

amother Cornsilk wrote:

We make less than half of what OP is making and have double the amount of kids. I don't find these threads offensive at all. It's actually encouraging to me, that it's not like we could avoid struggle by earning more money. Challenges in parnasa are had by pretty much everyone, so we can stop second guessing our hishtadlus. We are doing our best, and Hashem will decide how difficult finances will be.

same!

amother

↑ Cyclamen ↓

Wed, Dec 18 2024, 5:15 pm

amother Cerise wrote:

So I make around the same amount with 3 kids. My daycare/ tuition is 3000 a month because no one is giving us a discount.
Health insurance is 2k a month because we’re not eligible for any subsidies.

And our post tax is only 8k.

Wow that's a lot I pay 450 for health insurance. We get jerseycare subsidies for kids

BTW I wasn't trying to show I'm better then op by posting my budget. I read hers and couldn't beleive it. Just figured I would show another budget cuz she was asking to see

amother

↑ OP ↓

Wed, Dec 18 2024, 5:18 pm

amother Cyclamen wrote:

Ty I do appreciate you posting!

The mortgage point is very important. These days you can’t get that mortgage.

And your savings tens of thousands by getting assistance with healthcare.

The point is that as income goes up, so many expenses go up with it that you often don’t end up in a better place.

amother

↑ Cyclamen ↓

Wed, Dec 18 2024, 5:18 pm

amother OP wrote:

You say that your breakdown shows it’s doable but your expenses are not realistic for most families.

When did you buy your house? Virtually impossible to get a $3,500 mortgage these days unless it’s for a 2 bedroom on yehupitzville.

Your utilities are extremely low. Your tuition (approx $7,000/kid) is very low compared to monsey or Brooklyn.

You don’t mention health insurance or medical expenses. Do you get for free?

You have 4 kids, average in town frum family has more.

Bought around 4 years ago. For around 650,000 in Lakewood It was a good time to buy we got lucky. I feel for you op

amother

↑ Cerulean

Wed, Dec 18 2024, 5:21 pm

cupcake123 wrote:

Wow where do you live ?I have more kids but similar ages. Eat meat Friday night and cholent. Probably spend around 1000 a month but now I want to calculate exactly.

How do you spend only 1000 a month on groceries for a family bigger than 8?
We're a family of 5, we do not eat meat only on yom tov. We shop sales. And our groceries are about $1600 a month.

amother

↑ Linen

Wed, Dec 18 2024, 5:29 pm

amother OP wrote:

$300k pre-tax
$225k after tax
6 kids
Tri state (Monsey/brooklyn/lakewood)

$60k mortgage & property tax
$60k tuition
$24k groceries
$12k utilities
$24k medical & dental
$6k cars (insurance, gas etc)
$6k home & life insurance
$22k maaser
$12k camp ($2k/kid)

TOTAL: $226k

Income is now completely depleted.
And many of the above estimates are actually underestimated.

Here are just SOME of the things that are NOT included in the above list of expenses:

CLOTHING. TOILETRIES. NECESSARY HOME REPAIRS. Haircuts. Chol hamoed trips. Landscaping. Cleaning help. Seminary. Bar mitzvahs. Weddings. Vacations. Birthday presents. Shalach manos. Chanuka tips. Lulav and esrog. Sheitels. School supplies. Extracurriculars. Mikvah. Diapers. LITERALLY EVERYTHING ELSE.

OP I want to thank you, truly and from the bottom of my heart, for posting this.

DH has always had this question mark, IF we did x y z then we could make it in the US. I showed him your post and he said, "Well that's the tri-state area, it's expensive." I said, "Well, we have special kids, we need a place that has what they need." Which he knows and can't argue with. He looked at your mortgage and property tax and said, "That's crazy high." I said, "The consensus on this thread is that it's not actually that high, unless you bought 8-10 years ago and look at it saying, 'Wow look how much prices rose.' But it's actually decent for today's market." And I pointed out that a huge chunk of your maaser is for ONE kid's therapies (we need at least 2 kids in therapies).

Now he has nothing to say lol. Because you make 300k. All he can do is roll his eyes and shrug.

Not that I want to make yerida but every so often the subject comes up for one reason or another and this is a major argument between us, whether or not we could ever, ever, possibly make it in the US. I say no way. He says sure if if if. So thank you. You may have just convinced him.

↑ imaima

Wed, Dec 18 2024, 5:35 pm

amother Holly wrote:

That's not the point. I live on about 30k (I'm a single mother and looking for more work but even then I might have 50k) in an expensive area. Yes thankfully I have a much smaller mortgage but if I had such a huge one I'd re- think where I was living. My main point is I wouldn't go complaining in front of people who earn so much less then me. 300k is not considered low income regardless of your life circumstances.

Why did you click on this thread? It states clearly in the title what it’s about.
No amount of trigger warnings is enough

amother

↑ Cerise ↓

Wed, Dec 18 2024, 5:35 pm

amother Cyclamen wrote:

Yup. And you basically proved our point. As soon as you’re “middle class”, the expenses sky rocket. Your extra kid puts you into government subsidy and tuition discount territory, which saves you thousands of dollars a month compared to me. Maybe you also get wic? Is your daycare subsidized?

amother

↑ OP ↓

Wed, Dec 18 2024, 5:36 pm

amother Heather wrote:

What on earth are all of us making in the 100k range suppose to feel like???
We are not eligible for any govt help.
We do get tuition discounts, and health insurance from our jobs b"h.
But how are we suppose to make it? I guess miracles and gemachim and CCs....

Can you post a basic breakdown of income and expenses? And where you live and number of children?

amother

↑ Cyclamen ↓

Wed, Dec 18 2024, 5:40 pm

amother Cerise wrote:

No to the last questions. And I don't get discount in tuition at all this is what we pay lakewood

amother

Steel

Wed, Dec 18 2024, 5:41 pm

We only make 110k.
But bh bh DH gets health insurance. A higher deductible plan but my husband and I pay around $65 a month for the plan. Currently our kids are in Jersey Care but if they lose it, we can put them on the insurance including dental and vision for $85/month total. And we have HSA option.

We still pay medical expenses, copays, deductibles but that's huge for us.

OP, is that an option to pursue to look into a different job with insurance.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Wed, Dec 18 2024, 5:45 pm

OK EVERYONE here is what I did NOT tell you:

BH we actually have NO financial worries. This is because we have been making $300kish for a very long time, long before our expenses were so high. Back when we had just 2 babies and were renting for $1500/month. Therefore we had many years where we were able to save $150k+ per year. For this reason, we would be able to pay off a huge chunk of our mortgage right now if we wanted to. It’s not worth it for us to do so, since we are making money off of our invested money. B’derech hateva, we will also be having significant increases in income next year and in the years to come.

For these reasons we BH BH have no problem paying for all of our needs and most of our wants.

HOWEVER

That does not negate the reason I posted this. If not for our mazel and hard work earning all this money when we were younger, our situation would be very different. We LITERALLY would not be making it on $300k.

And THAT is the reason I made this post, I want people to understand that point!! People who kvetch about families not paying full tuition, people who kvetch about people who have lifestyle creep and overspend- they don’t understand the reality. Maybe they’re on government programs and don’t realize the true cost of things, maybe they bought a house even 6 years ago and have no clue how much mortgages are now.

The point is, families in the tri state area with 5+ kids need to be making literally hundreds of thousands to cover expenses. And how can we reasonably expect all frum families to be in the top 1% of earners in the US???

I don’t know what the solution is but I worry every night for my siblings and friends and how they will ever make it.

amother

DarkRed ↓

Wed, Dec 18 2024, 5:48 pm

amother Cyclamen wrote:

THAT IS OP'S POINT!!!!!! YES IM YELLING.

Your tone was "I can do it"

Until your ncome is well over 300k, probably something like 400k, you are basically treading water as your income is eaten up by your subsidies going away (like jerseycare!), your scholarships going away, and your taxes going up.up.up!

Its hard to believe and so frustrating as you think, this raise, finally, ill have some breathing room. And NOPE!

People talk about tax refunds, well I pay taxes every year even though Im on a W2 (I know o can fix that by withholding more, but thats not the point. Thats just timing)

Also, as most people are not reaching the higher income until theyre older, life costs go up as as well. Big people eat more than only little kiddos. way way more.
High school costs more than elementary. Teen clothes cost more and are harder to scrimp on.
This eats whatever extra was left and then some. So bh income has gone up to.somewhat cover, but typically NOT ENOUGH!

amother

Pewter ↓

Wed, Dec 18 2024, 5:49 pm

amother OP wrote:

Ok, can you post a basic breakdown of your income and expenses, along with your location and amount of kids?

Can you tell me exactly which expenses I should/can cut?

Can you cut landscaping? If you're struggling financially that's the first thing O would cut. Buying your own mower costs less than paying someone else regularly.

amother

Caramel ↓

Wed, Dec 18 2024, 5:49 pm

RM3 wrote:

Not disagreeing with anything you’re saying but if you have $24k in medical expenses then you shouldn’t get taxed on the full $300k. You should have an HSA account so $24k is spent pre-tax.

Definitely look into speaking with your accountant, do you work from home at all - sometimes you can take off of taxes there,

Tuition in a savings account that you take out of pre tax might be another option..