Confessions of a nonpayer S/O tuition thread

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Forum -> Chinuch, Education & Schooling

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↑ chestnut ↓

Mon, Dec 16 2024, 9:54 pm

amother OP wrote:

Yes. See above. If you're asking this question, I'm assuming you don't live in lkwd.

No, I don't

amother

↑ OP ↓

Mon, Dec 16 2024, 9:58 pm

DrMom wrote:

It's still not clear to me how much income you were making last year back when you were able to pay tuition.

Personally, I do think it makes sense to consider (at least temporarily) limiting family size if you are just barely making it financially and aren't willing to take steps to further reduce expenses (such as relocating to somewhere less expensive) or to bring in more income (retrain to get a higher-paying job, etc.). Even if you are taking such steps, it takes a while to see the impact on your financial situation.

I'm on BC for a while now, thank you. And yes, I've mentioned in other posts that we are actively seeking ways to grow our income. We both have promising new job prospects (DH for a new full time job that is more stable and higher paying; me for another side job) but we don't really have time to spare for any additional training. You're right; it will take us VERY long to climb out of the hole we're in and we're expecting that, even with an income boost. We'll keep at it for as long as it takes.

familyfirst

Mon, Dec 16 2024, 9:59 pm

OP - you are a tzadeikes.
Sending hugs and brochos. You are doing the best you can!!

May HaShem Bentch you with brochos bharchava! Your situation resonates with many many people.

↑ chestnut ↓

Mon, Dec 16 2024, 10:00 pm

amother Hydrangea wrote:

There was always a tuition crisis. What does that even mean, there was no tuition crisis in Brooklyn or Monsey????

I went to school in Brooklyn, and girls were regularly sent home for not paying tuition. There was a time when we came to school and it was locked, by the landlord, we couldn't get in. Our teachers went on strike because they hadn't gotten paid on months. Or maybe years. My friend got her teaching paycheck to years later. This was a regular girls school in Brooklyn.

That's not how Lakewood was at all in the 70's and 80's, why do you think parents supported?

Were there as many ppl not affording tuition back in the 70-80s as there are now?
How were all these Lakewood kollel families surviving back then if not for parents' support? Was the kollel paying enough to support the family?

amother

↑ OP ↓

Mon, Dec 16 2024, 10:01 pm

chestnut wrote:

No, I don't

Ok, so you must have missed where I explained above that playgroup and tuition literally doubled in the last few years. I was paying $250 per child per playgroup when my youngest was born; I now pay $500/child and will be paying $600+ next year. School tuition has seen similar jumps. Before that, these numbers would rise each year, but in stable, predictable increments. It's only in the last few years that they've started jumping crazily like this.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Mon, Dec 16 2024, 10:02 pm

familyfirst wrote:

OP - you are a tzadeikes.
Sending hugs and brochos. You are doing the best you can!!

May HaShem Bentch you with brochos bharchava! Your situation resonates with many many people.

Amen, thank you!

And wishing the same on anyone in this situation!

↑ chestnut ↓

Mon, Dec 16 2024, 10:03 pm

amother OP wrote:

I hear you.

↑ DrMom ↓

Mon, Dec 16 2024, 10:04 pm

amother OP wrote:

Would you consider relocating to a less expensive area? Although moving itself costs $ and more remote locations have less Jewish infrastructure...

amother

↑ Raspberry ↓

Mon, Dec 16 2024, 10:05 pm

amother Raspberry wrote:

Quit your job, keep your 2 babies home from playgroup and drive your kids to school. You just saved $1,600 a month. Now, open a babysitting group in your house from 10-2, take 6 kids and charge $400/month. You just earned $2,400 a month (besides the $1,600 you’re saving, so really $4,000/month). You’ll also be able to deduct significant mortgage expenses by using your home as your place of business.

Whatever job you’ve been doing in the evenings, keep doing it.

Does this make you come out ahead compared to your current salary, or behind? Curious.

OP can you respond to this post?

amother

↑ OP ↓

Mon, Dec 16 2024, 10:07 pm

amother Raspberry wrote:

Thanks for the suggestion but my two kids in playgroup aren't babies. My older one will be in school soon so it'll just be one home with me which isn't saving as much. Especially because I wouldn't be able to work mornings so I'd lose that income, which is more than 4k.

Thanks for the suggestion though; maybe it'll work for someone else!

↑ DrMom ↓

Mon, Dec 16 2024, 10:07 pm

amother OP wrote:

I'd assume these huge jumps are partially because of rising costs on the part of the schools, and partly because as more and more people stopped paying tuition, the burden rests on fewer and fewer paying families, so the official cost of tuition has to increase to account for that.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Mon, Dec 16 2024, 10:10 pm

DrMom wrote:

Would you consider relocating to a less expensive area? Although moving itself costs $ and more remote locations have less Jewish infrastructure...

I honestly don't think we'd come out ahead. My mortgage is actually very reasonable for the infrastructure I enjoy in Lakewood which comes with relatively low tuition and a fairly decent job market. The only place it may make sense to move to is somewhere with no tuition, like EY. But as much as I'd love to do that, it's not happening, at least not until my kids are all finished school.

amother

↑ Hydrangea ↓

Mon, Dec 16 2024, 10:12 pm

chestnut wrote:

When Lakewood Cheder first started the fathers took turns teaching (this is what I heard, I didn't live there). The classrooms were people's basements. When my children were growing up, they were in an old, dumpy building, which was just fine as our house was not much better. I guess they didn't pay teachers and Rebbeim much.

How did people in kollel survive- I'll pass on that question as I wasnt there, but one thing I know for sure is that the standard of living then was very, very different (my relatives lived in two bedroom apartments with lots of children kh). No new clothing, no car, etc etc etc. If parents were helping, they most certainly weren't covering all of the families expenses.

Anyway this is all moot as Lakewood is no longer a kollel town, and hasn't been for some time. Are there more people not affording tuition now then then? How would anyone know - do you know the numbers of people not affording tuition today? I've never seen numbers anywhere.

Again, why is everyone assuming this tuition crisis is new? There's been a tuition crisis for as long as I can remember (I'm in my fifties). We live in a country that has constant economic ups and downs, right now we're in a down. Hopefully that will change soon iyh.

amother

↑ Hydrangea ↓

Mon, Dec 16 2024, 10:14 pm

DrMom wrote:

No that's not the reason. The huge jump in tuition is the same reason for the huge jump in insurance and the huge jump in car payments and food and basically everything else- everything has just gone up. Life is not affordable- for anybody. It's not just the frum community with large families who are feeling the pinch.

amother

↑ Hydrangea ↓

Mon, Dec 16 2024, 10:17 pm

And playgroups went up because of CHS. Everyone here knows that.

↑ chestnut

Mon, Dec 16 2024, 10:23 pm

amother Hydrangea wrote:

That would explain very low tuitions back then there, but rent needed to be paid even for small apartments, plus ppl were still buying houses, I'm sure. Food, medical expenses, Simchas were still happening (yes, on a totally different level, but still).
These days we see families with normal incomes not affording daily expenses. I don't think it was the case in the 70-80s Brooklyn and Monsey. That is not to say there weren't poor ppl back then who couldn't afford tuition and rent. But it's so different now - we aren't talking about poor families.

amother

Pansy

Mon, Dec 16 2024, 10:27 pm

amother OP wrote:

I'm reading through the other thread and shaking my head at the vast amount of assumptions and misinformation on the other side. So, I'll bite.

I don't pay tuition to one of my four schools. At all. Of course, I want to and plan to but we haven't been able to since sometime last year.

I have three other schools to pay each month. We're fully up to date on one of them and very behind in the other two. The reason we don't pay this one school is because it's the biggest bill each month and we can't possibly pay it. Again, CAN'T not WON'T. BH the school has been extremely understanding and I don't know what I'd do if I got a letter like the one posted on the other thread.

Why are we struggling so badly?

Well, DH's work has been suffering badly since post-covid times. His salary varies but lately it's been lower than usual and it's been hard. Yes, I also work, yes, full time. No, I'm not out of the house 8 hours a day because that would cost me in childcare, but I put in a full morning's work and then when the little ones are in bed I sit down to another few hour's work. I work weekends, too.

On average, we bring home $9,200 a month net.

These are our monthly expenses:
Mortgage: 3500
Utilities: 1k
Cars: 900 (insurance plus payments on one car, the other is owned, no leases)
CC debt: 600
Transportation for kids: 600 (no bussing, need this or could not get to work on time. We do get some of this back in aid in lieu, but not close to what we pay)
Playgroups: 1k
Tuition 1 elementary: 700
Tuition 3 elementary: 1600
Tuition 1 girl hs: 600
Tuition 1 mesivta: 800

Total: 11,900

This is before we spent a penny on food or gas and we're already 2,700 under. Do you still fault me for not paying that tuition?

And before you jump on me, no, we don't have a bit of cleaning help, no, we haven't been on an overnight vacation in years, no, we don't buy takeout or even pizza (not fresh or frozen), yes, we shop the sales and clothing is hand me downs from cousins or from Serendipity. And yes, we are both working at our max right now and still looking for ways to grow our careers and bring in more money each month. Hopefully things will change soon with Hashem's help.

We don't qualify for foodstamps, but yes, we are on Tomchei Shabbos and I can't describe how low that makes me feel, even now just writing it out. You may also notice that there's no health insurance here. My kids BH are on UHC, but my husband and I don't have insurance at the moment. Neither of us gets it from our jobs and we dropped it when we couldn't afford the premiums. It was literally that or have our electricity be shut off.

So, tell me, all of you on the other thread who were convinced there's a spending problem behind the tuition issue, or that parents are prioritizing other expenses. What should I cut out here?

I think you need to be firmer with the schools you are paying and negotiate the tuition down. Perhaps your Rov could advocate for you. A school can’t demand money you literally don’t have when you and your husband are living in a shoestring budget and each working full time.

I think there are a lot of people prioritizing lifestyle over tuition. The hundred eateries in Lakewood dozens of high priced clothing stores and newish car leases, all catering mostly to the middle class is evidence of that.

You are clearly not one of them. Schools should look elsewhere when trying to get parents to prioritize tuition and cut you some slack.

amother

↑ Peony

Mon, Dec 16 2024, 11:18 pm

chestnut wrote:

But $1,100 mortgage 25 y ago was a much bigger chunk of your salaries than it is now.

thats true. But we paid a lot less in tuition!
for example about 25 years ago we struggled a lot more. take home pay was approx $4k/month. Mortgage was approx $1100/month.
Tuition for two little kiddies was about 600/month.
All worked out BH.

amother

NeonPink

Mon, Dec 16 2024, 11:41 pm

I just wanted to send you a hug. It doesn’t sound easy. We grew up like this, my father was always stressed and we felt a lot of guilt for any expense. We live in Israel now so we don’t know about tuition struggles.

↑ DrMom

Yesterday at 12:08 am

amother Hydrangea wrote:

If you read what I wrote, I cited general rising costs as the first reason for tuition increases.

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