Confessions of a nonpayer S/O tuition thread

amother

↑ Raspberry ↓

Yesterday at 12:01 am

amother OP wrote:

Your math is off. 110k is our net, not gross.

And for the tenth time, we were making a lot more and our expenses were a lot lower when we had our 8th child. No one's income is guaranteed to last. No one's.

I know your net is $110k. And the crazy thing is that compared to the average American you are earning very nicely! But the average American doesn’t have 8 kids and pay private school tuition.

No one’s income is guaranteed to last. But most of the people who can’t pay tuition haven’t gone through a drastic income loss like you or other posters on this thread are saying they’ve gone through. Life simply became too expensive for them to afford.

Side note, you say your expenses were a lot lower when you had your 8th child, I’m not sure what that means, but you didn’t list any expenses here that aren’t entirely predictable.

I’m not even saying that it’s hashkafically correct to limit your family size based on finances (though when you literally can’t afford food it may be). All I’m saying is I don’t get where the surprise is coming from.

amother

Peony ↓

Yesterday at 12:01 am

a comment:

OP it sounds so challenging. I feel bad that you are struggling like this. I can so relate.

People are asking what has changed, how is it that in the past people could live on that income with that number of kids. Well one thing that changed is the cost of housing.
Our mortgage (almost paid off because we bought this house over 25 years ago) is about $1100/month. But most people who bought houses in more recent years are paying way more than that.
We are coming home with approx $9300 a month, so very very similar to OP.
But because of our low mortgage, no bussing costs, and no cc debt we are managing to pay the discounted tuition rates that the schools are asking us for. Its not easy but we can do it.
In tuition we are paying about $3k a month for 6 kids. One married and we help out a little.
But after tuition and mortgage we still have about $5k a month for all the other expenses, insurance, car expenses, groceries etc.
So anyways, thats one thing that has changed and has made it so hard to manage.
I worry about when my kids want to buy a house, they will need much higher salaries than we ever had to be able to buy...

amother

↑ Hydrangea ↓

Yesterday at 12:04 am

chestnut wrote:

Everyone was in kollel in the 70-80s Lakewood? How many families were living there in the 70s? Even if they all were in kollel, their parents were probably able to support them cause it was just one married child out of all, not all needing support.
In those years there was no tuition crisis in Brooklyn or Monsey, either.

There was always a tuition crisis. What does that even mean, there was no tuition crisis in Brooklyn or Monsey????

I went to school in Brooklyn, and girls were regularly sent home for not paying tuition. There was a time when we came to school and it was locked, by the landlord, we couldn't get in. Our teachers went on strike because they hadn't gotten paid on months. Or maybe years. My friend got her teaching paycheck to years later. This was a regular girls school in Brooklyn.

That's not how Lakewood was at all in the 70's and 80's, why do you think parents supported?

amother

↑ Raspberry ↓

Yesterday at 12:05 am

amother Peony wrote:

OP’s mortgage is $3,500, that’s not even a mortgage that’s possible to get these days in Lakewood, Brooklyn, or monsey if you’re buying within a mile walk to a shul. She has a cheap mortgage. My mortgage is $5,500, no yidden within a 5 minute walk, and 20 minute walk to shul. And I’m considered lucky to be paying so little.

amother

Bone

Yesterday at 12:07 am

amother OP wrote:

I'm reading through the other thread and shaking my head at the vast amount of assumptions and misinformation on the other side. So, I'll bite.

I don't pay tuition to one of my four schools. At all. Of course, I want to and plan to but we haven't been able to since sometime last year.

I have three other schools to pay each month. We're fully up to date on one of them and very behind in the other two. The reason we don't pay this one school is because it's the biggest bill each month and we can't possibly pay it. Again, CAN'T not WON'T. BH the school has been extremely understanding and I don't know what I'd do if I got a letter like the one posted on the other thread.

Why are we struggling so badly?

Well, DH's work has been suffering badly since post-covid times. His salary varies but lately it's been lower than usual and it's been hard. Yes, I also work, yes, full time. No, I'm not out of the house 8 hours a day because that would cost me in childcare, but I put in a full morning's work and then when the little ones are in bed I sit down to another few hour's work. I work weekends, too.

On average, we bring home $9,200 a month net.

These are our monthly expenses:
Mortgage: 3500
Utilities: 1k
Cars: 900 (insurance plus payments on one car, the other is owned, no leases)
CC debt: 600
Transportation for kids: 600 (no bussing, need this or could not get to work on time. We do get some of this back in aid in lieu, but not close to what we pay)
Playgroups: 1k
Tuition 1 elementary: 700
Tuition 3 elementary: 1600
Tuition 1 girl hs: 600
Tuition 1 mesivta: 800

Total: 11,900

This is before we spent a penny on food or gas and we're already 2,700 under. Do you still fault me for not paying that tuition?

And before you jump on me, no, we don't have a bit of cleaning help, no, we haven't been on an overnight vacation in years, no, we don't buy takeout or even pizza (not fresh or frozen), yes, we shop the sales and clothing is hand me downs from cousins or from Serendipity. And yes, we are both working at our max right now and still looking for ways to grow our careers and bring in more money each month. Hopefully things will change soon with Hashem's help.

We don't qualify for foodstamps, but yes, we are on Tomchei Shabbos and I can't describe how low that makes me feel, even now just writing it out. You may also notice that there's no health insurance here. My kids BH are on UHC, but my husband and I don't have insurance at the moment. Neither of us gets it from our jobs and we dropped it when we couldn't afford the premiums. It was literally that or have our electricity be shut off.

So, tell me, all of you on the other thread who were convinced there's a spending problem behind the tuition issue, or that parents are prioritizing other expenses. *What should I cut out here?*

To answer your question: you should cut out the negativity.
You seem like you know what you’re doing. Hashem should help and things should turn around now for the better.

↑ chestnut ↓

Yesterday at 12:11 am

OP, how do you manage paying $2,700 difference monthly?

amother Daphne wrote:

I thought the same but made a cheshbon and if OP gives $250x6 kids and $1000 for the 2 playgroups (playgroups are usually a Morah in house it’s harder to pay less) it would be break even at $9200. That’s still without food and insurance. It’s crazy how it’s not possible to live like this, $9200/month is really nice money but so not enough to live.

OP I assume if you’re paying 2 playgroups that you’re working out of the house 9-3/10-2 hours plus more at home at night. Wow I commend you!

I think OP said she's working mornings and then evenings.

amother

↑ Raspberry ↓

Yesterday at 12:18 am

amother OP wrote:

Quit your job, keep your 2 babies home from playgroup and drive your kids to school. You just saved $1,600 a month. Now, open a babysitting group in your house from 10-2, take 6 kids and charge $400/month. You just earned $2,400 a month (besides the $1,600 you’re saving, so really $4,000/month). You’ll also be able to deduct significant mortgage expenses by using your home as your place of business.

Whatever job you’ve been doing in the evenings, keep doing it.

Does this make you come out ahead compared to your current salary, or behind? Curious.

DrMom ↓

Yesterday at 12:26 am

amother OP wrote:

It's still not clear to me how much income you were making last year back when you were able to pay tuition.

Personally, I do think it makes sense to consider (at least temporarily) limiting family size if you are just barely making it financially and aren't willing to take steps to further reduce expenses (such as relocating to somewhere less expensive) or to bring in more income (retrain to get a higher-paying job, etc.). Even if you are taking such steps, it takes a while to see the impact on your financial situation.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Yesterday at 12:46 am

amother Raspberry wrote:

I read your post. Are you saying you have lost over 50% of your income since your last child was born? Your income isn’t close to covering your literal most barebones basic expenses. I truly feel bad for you but I also don’t think you can act surprised.

I hope you can accept more tzedaka money if it is offered to you. I’m truly sorry you are in this position. Despite what others are saying I’m not trying to be hurtful. I don’t think you don’t care about tuition or about taking care of your children. But the reality is that when every other family on your kids schools are in the same position as you, what are kids supposed to do? Perhaps those families who truly feel they should keep having kids despite not having money for groceries should homeschool their kids.

No, I'm not saying that. I lost a chunk, but probably closer to 25%, but expenses really leapt in the last few years.

When I had my youngest, I was paying 250 to playgroup. Now I pay 500 and I'll be paying 600 next year. Tuition was 400 for most of my kids, now it's double that in some schools and 50% higher in others. And that's just tuition. Car payments, insurance, utilities all skyrocketed in the last few years. And this is all without even considering the rising costs of groceries, household staples and clothing.

Between staggering costs for the average family, struggling businesses and floundering schools, it really is a perfect storm right now.

↑ chestnut ↓

Yesterday at 12:48 am

amother Raspberry wrote:

OP's evening job is the same as her morning job. It's a full time job she split between mornings and evenings, instead of 9-3/4 (whatever full time hours in Lakewood are). Unless she can do it part time just in the evenings, although after full day of babysitting, I'm not sure she'll have strength for that.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Yesterday at 12:50 am

amother Raspberry wrote:

Adding that your last few lines are truly hurtful, especially after I explained my family size numerous times on this thread. And I'm sure I'm not the only one in this situation right now.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Yesterday at 12:53 am

amother Raspberry wrote:

Really? Tuition doubling in three years is predictable? How, exactly? Are you really saying that the trajectory of the economy in the last few years was predictable and normal and we should have all seen it coming?

↑ chestnut ↓

Yesterday at 12:54 am

amother Peony wrote:

But $1,100 mortgage 25 y ago was a much bigger chunk of your salaries than it is now.