Spinoff tuition thre... I am not some magical mythical being

amother

↑ Cobalt

Mon, Dec 16 2024, 1:54 pm

amother Sand wrote:

You consider “basic responsibilities” to be working full time while you have young kids so you can save up for a house, other people consider “basic responsibilities” not to send to babysitters the infants they chose to birth. Neither is black and white, but your way isn’t the only right way.

My basic responsibility is not to collapse on my children. I won't shirk it.

amother

↑ Navyblue ↓

Mon, Dec 16 2024, 1:58 pm

I always wanted to stay home with my kids ever since I was a kid myself.
I have been working in childcare since I got married and I managed to keep my kids with me until they were about about 18 months old.
I work in a daycare now so I can keep tabs on my kids and choose who their Morahs will be.
This was my personal choice that I made knowing full well that I wouldn't be able to make a decent salary.

amother

Electricblue

Mon, Dec 16 2024, 2:07 pm

It looks like I'm the first ADHD poster here.

I can't do it.

I can do a lot. I can make supper, I can work a little bit, I can be patient and calm with my kids, I can force myself to clean, I can set timers and make lists, I can have kids and be pregnant every other year, I can be a good wife, friend and community member, I can be (somewhat) on top of the grocery ordering. I can (usually) have clean clothes for my kids. I can say no when I need to, I can get cleaning help when I'm drowning.

Here's what I can't do. I can't, like my brain isn't wired to - have a full time job, be on top of all my kids appointments and get them there, make supper (I'm talking any supper), be on top laundry, maintain a livable home, be pregnant, have newborns, nurse them, be up at night, and not check myself into a mental health facility. OR I would need to outsource most of these leaving me with no money to pay full tuition with.

My Rav (and my kids school agrees) says that having more kids comes before paying full tuition.

BH my kids school doesn't require mothers to be working full time to get tuition discounts.

amother

Dustypink ↓

Mon, Dec 16 2024, 2:18 pm

amother OP wrote:

1. Because I am dealing with almost everything you listed. Just to start: Special needs kids- plural, family members with health needs. My life isn't fun, easy or perfect. I could go on but don't want to out myself. But yes mental health issues in the family, emotional/verbal abuse too. I could go on.
2. You do it if you have to. I am exhausted. I prioritize my kids over me. There is a lot to do with mindset and willpower and the fact that there is no other choice or you will be the proud owner of the tent in the park. So many people assume they can't. Or they had one bad experience but switching jobs, changing hours etc can make the difference.

Some women never bother to try. Or can't get over the "I need perfectly updated and cleaned homes daily" which is totally a want, not a need. I don't live a fancy life.
Mindset matters. Read up on Carole dwek and growth mindset.
You can increase your capabilities and get "more energy" to do it all

I've done all that you've done, and am still doing so. Working full time, letting the house go a bit etc. But I'm a bit older than you, and in retrospect, I'm rethinking if that was the right move.

Im exhausted, I'm burnt out, I'm tired. And in hindsight, I've lost so much of my life chasing tails. I did prioritize my kids, but there's only so much you can prioritize them when you're working full time and have a house to run. I feel like I've been on a hamster wheel and never had time to live.

And what now? My kids are slowly leaving the nest, but I have zero strength to go out and enjoy life. I have almost no friends left, because I've never had time for them. Financially, I'm still struggling because I'm still marrying kids off. So is the goal we are striving for? Run ourselves ragged till we break? Chase our tails daily and lose the joy and beauty of our younger years and enter our later years washed out like a shmatte?

I want better for my kids. This isn't called living.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Mon, Dec 16 2024, 2:34 pm

amother Sand wrote:

You prioritize paying your mortgage, other people prioritize other things. They make different choices. Perhaps they move in with family. Perhaps they sell their house and rent an apartment. Perhaps they stop having children. Perhaps they get divorced. Perhaps they open a babysitting group that allows them to work from home and keep their baby home. Perhaps they work part time and take tzedaka.

I agree with you that many people who say they “could never” work full time would actually somehow manage to if that was literally their only option for survival. But people speak in figures of speech. And other people assume that working full time is their only option when sometimes there are in fact others.

You’re assuming that anyone in your position would work full time if only they mustered up the willpower.

What mortgage?? Such assumptions from people telling me not to assume people are refusing to even try to work.
Again. People who DONT work or HAVE NEVER WORKED can't say "my energy won't let me" or "I don't have that stamina".
Try it for a few months. My first 4-6 months were an adjustment but it is doable for a lot more people than our community thinks.

amother

↑ Scarlet ↓

Mon, Dec 16 2024, 2:36 pm

amother OP wrote:

You're making it sound as if people can just up and get a job. The job market isn't that easy, especially for people without much experience.

amother

↑ Birch

Mon, Dec 16 2024, 3:15 pm

amother OP wrote:

You sound really judgemental. Everyone should do what works for them and people shouldn't question other peoples choices.

amother

↑ Lightyellow ↓

Mon, Dec 16 2024, 4:04 pm

amother Navyblue wrote:

You should appreciate how lucky you are and understand that the "truth" is not putting food on the table by itself.
Some people need to work just to live

And how about 'this truth'? With 5 kids under 6, three of them would've needed daycare. Had I gone to work, I would have had to pay for the pleasure of working! And come home exhausted, with the breakfast dishes on the table. And the laundry to do, groceries to buy and supper to cook.

Instead I was a happy SAHM. I cooked for some out-of-town bochurim with allergies which brought us an income of sorts, bought target clothing (me and the kids), stayed home and did day trips during summer vacay..and take-away food? What's that??

Sorry, but I couldn't afford to work.

amother

↑ Honey ↓

Mon, Dec 16 2024, 4:11 pm

amother Lightyellow wrote:

Good for you!!!

amother

↑ Sand ↓

Mon, Dec 16 2024, 4:16 pm

amother OP wrote:

I apologize, just replace mortgage with rent.

How about this, you explain to me exactly why you working full time is/was the only option when your kids were young, and I’ll explain to you exactly what I would have done in that situation so that I would not have had to work full time.

mummiedearest ↓

Mon, Dec 16 2024, 4:31 pm

Op, what is your goal here? The impression I get is that you want everyone to applaud you for having this incredible insight into life. Ironically, when people tell you that they are amazed at what you can do and they can’t do it the way you do, they are applauding you. Some of them may want to do what you do and are anxious about making the leap. Some of them disagree with your philosophy but applaud your obvious effort and ability. Some of them legitimately can’t do what you do. I suspect none of them look down on you for working, even if they disagree with it philosophically. You seem to think that those who don’t work are lazy, unlike you. Some may be. Most are not. Either way, you seem to have a militant judgmental attitude. Maybe that helps you pull it all off. If that works for you, great. Maybe there’s a bit of jealousy in this as well. You are too principled to “slack off” like those who don’t work. Ah, woe.

There is a discussion to be had about the benefits of working outside the home vs. staying home to raise kids. That discussion shouldn’t be based on “your truth” or “her truth” or “my truth.” There is only truth. Everything else is opinion, personal experience, and attitude. This isn’t the way to have a productive discussion.

For what it’s worth, I’m glad that you have a setup that works for you. That’s very valuable.

↑ rkay

Mon, Dec 16 2024, 4:34 pm

amother OP wrote:

Where do you live? Most people I know if not all work. Most people don't even want to be a SAHM. I don't know anybody who NEVER worked like you quote. But we are getting defensive on this thread because I think most of us feel like we are always trying to chase our tails. So many people are suffering from mental illness and are near breaking point. Is it really ideal to work so hard and constantly feel like we are falling apart? It is sad that we have to do so much. And yes, if you are working 8 hours a day your kids are loosing out. Something always has to give.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Mon, Dec 16 2024, 4:51 pm

amother Birch wrote:

You sound really judgemental. Everyone should do what works for them and people shouldn't question other peoples choices.

If I am asked to or forced to pay for these choices then yes, there is a problem. If they get tuition discounts while I work and they dont-- yep, that is an issue.
If you can pay for your choices then make whatever choices you want.

amother

↑ OP

Mon, Dec 16 2024, 4:54 pm

mummiedearest wrote:

Actually I am not lauded or praised. It's with a smug "I could never do that". Or they ask for money and don't work. And say they have never tried to work, don't want to work etc.
I shouldn't have to run myself ragged to pay for you to stay home and relaxingly do your laundry, match socks and cook elaborate dinners. And yes, asking for a tuition discount or community help when you choose to not work is asking money from me. Because my tuition goes up. And I am not given a discount the years we needed it.

So many women assume they can't. But if they tried many really can...

amother

↑ Mulberry ↓

Mon, Dec 16 2024, 4:56 pm

Seems like I’m the lone defender of OP. Her point is that in today’s world, not working is a luxury. And if that luxury means you can’t pay tuition, you can’t make that choice on the backs of others. Yes, working is hard, whether it’s 40 hours a week with 2 kids or 20 hours a week with 5 kids, it’s hard. Those of us who do it are not stronger, we simply make the choice not to throw up our hands and say, I can’t. She’s saying that of course there are people with physical or mental illness who really can’t. But the majority of those who choose to stay home really could, mind over matter, if the school says pay up, do the hard, right thing.

amother

Midnight ↓

Mon, Dec 16 2024, 4:57 pm

amother Navyblue wrote:

You should appreciate how lucky you are and understand that the "truth" is not putting food on the table by itself.
Some people need to work just to live

I need to work to live. Literally.
But I also need to not work full time to live. So I have to make a choice. Maybe we go into severe debt so I can take care of myself.

amother

↑ Scarlet ↓

Mon, Dec 16 2024, 4:58 pm

amother Mulberry wrote:

A lot of women, if they were working, could not bring in enough money to cover the costs of working, as Lightyellow mentioned. And even those who can, it's not always by much. Should women run themselves ragged to bring in 5-10K a year?

amother

Bergamot

Mon, Dec 16 2024, 5:00 pm

amother Blueberry wrote:

For those of you who say you work full time, dose that mean 8hrs a day?

Yes yes with older and with younger. With newborn and pump and buses.
I’m not saying it’s the high life, but it’s definitely doable.
No parties or going out or evenings or fun. Hardly any Sundays spent out as I need all the time I can get in the house. Whenever I am home like Sundays or Chanukah nights or shabbos are spent sitting with my kids reading stories, massaging, listening to cds, playing clay… it’s incredibly hard but also incredibly rewarding.

amother

↑ Sand

Mon, Dec 16 2024, 5:01 pm

amother OP wrote:

I assume you have the same attitude towards kollel families? They shouldn’t be getting any community support or money?