I'm so fed up with this student

amother

↑ Purple ↓

Wed, Dec 04 2024, 6:33 pm

amother Celeste wrote:

If the school works with him, he can be playing on TorahGames for part of the day and learning something. He can play a game against another child and learn some interaction skills.

Except he has zero coping skills so if you ask him to do anything other than what he wants to be doing he has a total meltdown, and his shadow is pretty useless when that happens. So if I spent half an hour calmly preparing him for it, it may work, but how is that fair to the rest of the class that their time is wasted while I negotiate with this 1 kid. Parents like this current model for some ridiculous reason, so I'm told to just leave status quo. At least he's not disruptive. He's not the one I'm fed up with.

amother

↑ Celeste ↓

Wed, Dec 04 2024, 6:38 pm

amother Purple wrote:

If someone will invest 30 minutes one time (maybe while another teacher or the principal keeps an eye on the rest of the class) he can be doing something productive for weeks afterwards. "From now on, we're going to be doing something new. For the first hour of the day, you're going to play on TorahGames. Afterwards you can go back to your regular games."

I think too much is demanded from teachers, but I disagree that the school is doing all they can in such a case.

amother

↑ Hosta ↓

Wed, Dec 04 2024, 6:47 pm

amother OP wrote:

I have no idea.... I think the student just badgers the principal and the parents complain, threaten etc. It is so dysfunctional

This is something between you and hanhala and pressure the parents
They're not handling this right. Either the kid doesn't get to fire her para, or if she does she can't be in your class until she has a new one.
You need to be very clear about what is necessary for this to work. And a plan needs to be made and disincentifices the student from firing her para. She cannot have control over the situation like that. Or she can't be in your class. It isn't working. For anyone.
This isn't a conversation with the kid, it's with hanhala and perhaps parents.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Wed, Dec 04 2024, 7:14 pm

amother Tealblue wrote:

My daughter does not have any diagnosis. That’s part of the problem. We’ve gone to two psychologist, neurologist, and we’re in the middle of an extensive new evaluation.

I really try to do whatever I can to help, but the school keeps asking about a para. She’s not having behavior issues. But a para can help with some of the social issues and her focus/following directions piece. I just can’t afford one. And without programs or a diagnosis, I can’t get one.

I’ve done everything else the school wants, as I know she needs it. Extra tutors, a second speech therapist on top of the one from the school district, etc.
I do need guidance on the social skills piece, I’m hoping this evaluation can provide some more guidance.

I speak to the school often. I’m usually the one calling teachers to follow up, not them calling me.

How is speech helping her? If she's academically behind and has social skills Issues why would speech necessarily be the answer? If anything, I would try to invest in some regular therapy. I have found that to be the most worthwhile investment with the right person and they can definitely work on social skills. What are her issues academically? I have another student who is perfectly smart but she has zero memory recall or retention. The parents could care less and see no point in getting her help. However, you sound invested. So maybe if it's something like that, you can research programs that help with specific skill building rather than general diagnoses if that makes sense.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Wed, Dec 04 2024, 7:15 pm

amother Hosta wrote:

I have tried to make that line before and the principal keeps saying they are working on it, etc. But I guess I'm going to have to set up a time to speak and really put my foot down.

amother

↑ Mimosa

Wed, Dec 04 2024, 7:33 pm

amother Purple wrote:

A big part is how a conversation with you feels. Do I feel like you’re fighting me/ in denial/ against me/ making it my fault, or do I feel like we’re on the same side working together. One of my most difficult kids parents came to conferences “thanks so much for understanding our child and all you do for him, we understand it’s a challenge” vs another one “why isn’t she doing grade level work? You should be teaching her better”.

Listen to any suggestions (other than the shadow you can’t do now) and really consider them.

Maybe the person who asked about the level of the work thinks her daughter is acting the way she does because the class seems very easy and the parent is trying to understand if that might be contributing to the behavior. Sometimes when parents hear too much negative, they get tired of saying Thank You all the time. The teachers are allowed to bash a child all they want expecting a Thank You in return, but when a parent tries to give feedback , the educators can’t handle it.

amother

↑ Hosta ↓

Wed, Dec 04 2024, 8:45 pm

amother Jasmine wrote:

I'm a mechaneches and I'm so disappointed at the lack of empathy here. I know it's hard for the teacher, it's harder for the student. IMHO This whole conversation needs to be reframed to be about "How can I get this child the help he/she needs? " rather than "how can I deal with this so I don't have to deal with this? "
Where is the rachmonis? Where is the concern for a suffering neshamale?

I don't know what you're reading, but I see a caring loving teacher trying to work with the student and give them what they need to succeed only for other stubborn adults to be in the way and not let an actual practical to be put into play.
It's super frustrating.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Wed, Dec 04 2024, 9:03 pm

amother Jasmine wrote:

She needs a special education environment. I have offered tons of ideas to the principal and the parents. A child who is 3 years behind academically, has little to no social skills and exhibits horrible side effects from medication needs more help than I myself can provide or anyone in the school. I feel so sorry for this child!!!! I can't give this child what they need. End of story. The parents refuse to accept it and the menahel won't put their foot down. Perhaps my post should of been "I'm so fed up with the parents and principal!" I don't blame the student in the slightest.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Wed, Dec 04 2024, 9:08 pm

amother Peach wrote:

If the kid is struggling both academically and socially he or she doesn't belong there. My son struggles socially but does well academically for the most part. We have a shadow/aba for him. The school is patient. Lots of therapy provided. You need to explain to the parents that if the child doesn't get the right support then there will be bigger problems than frumkeit down the line. These are the kids who do drugs or steal. They think they are in charge and above the rules. They need support. There is no worse parenting than denial. A few years of real help go a long way.

I have said this sooooo many times! Forget now. What about down the line??? You need basic skills to function. The answer other teachers seemed to say was...well one day she will just be a mommy and that's good enough for them. As if being a competent mother doesn't require any real life skills??? Insanity. It upsets me so much. Really so little is in our control. Let's do the most we can for our kids. I sent my own child to a special ed school for 2 years. It was really hard. Now, this child is doing wonderful in a mainstream environment with extra help and therapy. People don't realize what a few intensive intervention years can do for a child. Unfortunately this child is already getting older and the clock is ticking. But if I say that to the parents they say shut up we know best

amother

Lime

Wed, Dec 04 2024, 9:16 pm

amother OP wrote:

You sound really dedicated and caring but unfortunately you can’t fix all the dysfunction in the world. I agree to working on making your classroom a functional space and stopping to fight for this one students education. It’s unfortunate but you won’t get far with the kind of support you have right now.

amother

Rainbow

Wed, Dec 04 2024, 9:51 pm

amother OP wrote:

Is this family really rich or yichusy? Otherwise I’m surprised.

amother

↑ Tealblue

Wed, Dec 04 2024, 10:01 pm

amother OP wrote:

Speech is working on processing skills. All her goals are pretty much processing goals.
Understanding and following directions are her main deficits. That’s what’s contributing to her academic hardships.
She’s at low average in grade level, with the extra tutors and support. Honestly? I’m fine with low average. But they are concerned about the gap widening. I get that.
Social issues only become apparent this year. I need to work on that piece somehow.

smarty skirt ↓

Wed, Dec 04 2024, 11:11 pm

First off you state in the singular about a child, then it turns to plural. Which is it? If you are dealing with the current situation and it is one child then let's focus on that. We can't change the past but we CAN alter the future.

This will be overwhelming if you look at the whole bag of problems all at once. Let's break it down peice by peice. What is the most overwhelming item to alter? Then let's focus on that so we can feel more effective.

I suggest reading the handbook of the policy of the school you are in for any remedies listed there.
Another one is showing proof of the child's work to the principal and grade level compared to the other students. Have concrete numbers. In writing put suggestions, if the child has very large emotional/behavioral problems a functional behavioral analysis could be done for a behavior plan. Does this child have an IESP, are all their supports coming from the school to support them?
Do the parents need an advocate to help them or an agency that the principal can recommend to help them with their decisions and get help for their child?

I don't think the child being a zombie should be high on your list. Some things you have to let go and establish your priorities. You are given this child to learn and bring out your best. Any teacher can have sucess over time with difficult students I believe if they have the tools, support, drive, knowledge to keep growing and learning.

You don't have to agree with the approach of the parents, I would take that off the plate. The child's counselor can communicate to staff to help them, there should be a counselor at the school seing the child and the child MAY learn quickly to get up there with the right setts teacher at school and or at home. This child may need a multi sensory approach to learning. This child may have auditory processing issues that need hearing aids at school, or prism progressive glasses with eye therapy for all I know in order to jump the learning.

I do not understand the fear of writing up suggested evaluations, remedies, accomodations, behavior plans by the principal for this child. If you can reduce the emotionalism for yourself and learn the remedies allowed by the special needs services you can really bring a child up a lot.

Right now we are using in our family Miriam Adahan's technique. We take a composition notebook per person, on the left we write gratitudes On the right page Victories. Each person writes, there is a financial incentive based on per page with one line skip in between, if you mention appreciation for someone else's victory you get a double entry. My husband and I share one and the kids each have one. It can build you up to do it every night at dinner but what would that be like at a school for students to write a victory page and gratitude page for things that happen at school and to read and share with a show of hands for those that wrote the same?

There are ways to help elevate a kid that no one else likes......doing this at school you can as an alternative have the kids have an assignment to do it with their family for a week, it helps to incentivize appropriate behavior it helps the good to come out!!!!!!!

amother

↑ Hosta ↓

Thu, Dec 05 2024, 1:47 am

smarty skirt wrote:

She is speaking about one student and made it pretty clear.
As for the rest of your post, it seems pretty clear that fortunately you never had to deal with unreasonable Hanhala who knock down every reasonable suggestion you have, and then tell you you need to deal with it. Thank Hashem for that!

amother

↑ Purple ↓

Thu, Dec 05 2024, 2:27 am

amother Celeste wrote:

Yes, it should be the special Ed teacher. Because it will need daily reminders and check-ins. That's not the classroom teachers job. Except we don't have one of those. Yes. You read that right. Parents put their kid with significant special needs in a school with no special Ed services.

amother

↑ Purple ↓

Thu, Dec 05 2024, 2:31 am

amother Mimosa wrote:

Beautiful Dan lkaf zechus. But no. This was a kid who was a late arrival to yeshiva because she needed a few years in public school for her assorted needs and parents are mad we haven't caught her up to grade level yet (and those needs that required public school are still there, but less)