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-> Parenting our children
teachkids
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 Today at 6:46 am
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Basically modeling. I might walk around the house in a shell without my hair covered , but if the kids want to open the shades they need to find me a tichel and sweatshirt first. If they push up my skirt in public “sorry love, if other people are around, my skirts need to cover my knees”. And once they’re 5 or 6 I remind them put a skirt on top of pjs if they’re going back outside. I also only buy clothes that meet our standards. And if it didn’t fit, it disappears. We also have a rule that you’re not allowed to come downstairs without some clothing on.
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amother
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Today at 7:10 am
| amother Razzmatazz wrote: | Joining this thread because I'd love to hear practical lines to tell a daughter.
Have a bunch of boys, and my daughter is 2.5 now. I'm so nervous about giving over tznius to her, it was given over to me in a way that left me with a bad taste in my mouth until this day. ("cover your knees, your brother's here"). For reference, I am a very tznius kollel wife today but took a lot of work to get here! I don't want my daughter to have to struggle like I did.
How do you teach a girl to be covered around men without having the negative affect? |
I don't tell little girls to cover their knees in front of brothers. There's a basic level of tznius in general. They know to be tzniusdik and not walk around undressed. I mean, there are seforim around, etc. It's not just about the boys, it's about dignity.
If the girls are young enough then it's no problem if a knee shows. Underwear is a different story, but again, that's a general principle, not just "for the boys".
It says in the shulchan aruch that tznius is for always. It's a general dignity of שויתי ה' לנגזי תמיד.
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amother
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Today at 7:19 am
| amother Clover wrote: | I don't tell little girls to cover their knees in front of brothers. There's a basic level of tznius in general. They know to be tzniusdik and not walk around undressed. I mean, there are seforim around, etc. It's not just about the boys, it's about dignity.
If the girls are young enough then it's no problem if a knee shows. Underwear is a different story, but again, that's a general principle, not just "for the boys".
It says in the shulchan aruch that tznius is a for always. It's a general dignity of שויתי ה' לנגזי תמיד. |
Exactly, nobody should be walking around without underwear, whether boys or girls, in front of different or same gender siblings.
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amother
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Today at 7:56 am
So at what age would you tell your daughter to cover her knees?
Let's say she's 4 and doing a headstand and there's guests over for the shabbos meal.
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amother
Lightgreen
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Today at 8:01 am
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Tznius is about self respect. Valuing yourself and your body. Modeling is more important than preaching. I try to buy clothing I find comfortable and encourage my kids to do the same. This way we like how we feel while dressing appropriately. Discussing how beautiful we are on the inside.
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flowerpower
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Today at 8:07 am
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Modeling!!!! I am strictly tznius at home and do it happily. They bh all follow suit. Not preaching. No coaching. No extremes at all. Just doing normal stuff and my kids do the same normal stuff🙏
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amother
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Today at 8:17 am
Thanks everyone for your replies.
The reason I started this thread was because of something that someone on another thread said.
In the other thread, (which went on for about 11 pages), someone said that if someone's daughter chooses to wear headgear that is considered a "downgrade" from what her mother does, her mother has every right to be hurt and upset. That seemed to be a sentiment that quite a few women felt. (The word she used was "entitled." Mom is entitled to be upset at said daughter for choosing a different headcovering. )
The reason is because, as she said, if you worked for18 years to instill tznius in your kid, it's hurtful when the daughter doesn't follow the mothers path. It was understood that tznius was a big focus and talked about a lot.
This got me thinking about how people instill tznius. I realized that I could not think of any specific way in which I actively instilled tznius in my girls, and yet my girls are BH wonderfully tznius girls. I also don't recall my mother ever saying a word about tznius. Yet, my mother is a tzanua, and I guess I learned by osmosis. And my children did the same. None of them struggle with tznius, bH.
I was wondering if my experience is unique and others actually talk about tznius to instill it?
I see from this thread that the majority of you also don't talk about it, but rather model it for your children.
The question I'm still left with is if a mother has a certain level of tznius, is it an expectation that her daughters must follow the same level?
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amother
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Today at 8:30 am
| amother OP wrote: | Thanks everyone for your replies.
The reason I started this thread was because of something that someone on another thread said.
In the other thread, (which went on for about 11 pages), someone said that if someone's daughter chooses to wear headgear that is considered a "downgrade" from what her mother does, her mother has every right to be hurt and upset. That seemed to be a sentiment that quite a few women felt. (The word she used was "entitled." Mom is entitled to be upset at said daughter for choosing a different headcovering. )
The reason is because, as she said, if you worked for18 years to instill tznius in your kid, it's hurtful when the daughter doesn't follow the mothers path. It was understood that tznius was a big focus and talked about a lot.
This got me thinking about how people instill tznius. I realized that I could not think of any specific way in which I actively instilled tznius in my girls, and yet my girls are BH wonderfully tznius girls. I also don't recall my mother ever saying a word about tznius. Yet, my mother is a tzanua, and I guess I learned by osmosis. And my children did the same. None of them struggle with tznius, bH.
I was wondering if my experience is unique and others actually talk about tznius to instill it?
I see from this thread that the majority of you also don't talk about it, but rather model it for your children.
The question I'm still left with is if a mother has a certain level of tznius, is it an expectation that her daughters must follow the same level? |
Must is a very strong word.
Most girls I know who grew up in a healthy environment WANT TO look like their mother. Not like a clone, younger girls tend to dress more stylish and younger looking obviously, but similar levels of tznius. The girls I know who went on a completely different path than their moms either:
Don't admire / respect their mother for whatever reason.
Did not have a happy and healthy childhood.
Are in emotional pain for whatever reason (from failure in school, social settings, to abuse, and everything in between).
Have friends who were not good for them spiritually.
So if someone turns out very different than her mother hashkafically (which includes tznius) it is not necessarily a sign that her mother did anything wrong.
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giftedmom
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Today at 8:35 am
| amother Razzmatazz wrote: | So at what age would you tell your daughter to cover her knees?
Let's say she's 4 and doing a headstand and there's guests over for the shabbos meal. |
Never. It happens naturally at some point. 4 is very young.
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renslet
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Today at 8:37 am
| amother Lightcyan wrote: | Must is a very strong word.
Most girls I know who grew up in a healthy environment want to look like their mother. Not like a clone but similar levels of tznius. The girls who went on a completely different path than their moms either:
Don't admire / respect their mother for whatever reason.
Did not have a happy and healthy childhood.
Are in emotional pain for whatever reason (from failure in school, social settings, to abuse, and everything in between).
Have friends who were not good for them spiritually.
So if someone turns out very different than her mother hashkafically (which includes tznius) it is not necessarily a sign that her mother did anything wrong. |
I really don't see this among me and my friends (40s), some of them just have different standards than their mothers, it doesn't have to be for any deep reasons.
Like my mother doesn't wear nail polish and I do. She doesn't wear a tichel when there are guests and I do etc.
I don't feel like I'm rejecting her, just these are things that I choose to do
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amother
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Today at 8:40 am
This is astonishing. You all do not ever tell your daughters *anything* about tznius and they just are tznius on their own? I would love to know how this happens practically.
This is so different than how I was raised.
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amother
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Today at 8:42 am
| renslet wrote: | I really don't see this among me and my friends (40s), some of them just have different standards than their mothers, it doesn't have to be for any deep reasons.
Like my mother doesn't wear nail polish and I do. She doesn't wear a tichel when there are guests and I do etc.
I don't feel like I'm rejecting her, just these are things that I choose to do |
You're not supposed to be your mother's clone. Everyone has different little things they do differently. I'm talking about when there's a drastic difference there usually is an underlying reason.
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amother
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Today at 8:45 am
| amother Razzmatazz wrote: | This is astonishing. You all do not ever tell your daughters *anything* about tznius and they just are tznius on their own? I would love to know how this happens practically.
This is so different than how I was raised. |
I don't understand it either. My mother hardly preached and I don't preach either. But I can't imagine raising a girl for 20 years and the subject of tznius never came up. Just like I teach them about all other mitzvos there are times when I need to explain things regarding tznius as well (especially during shopping or when they're young and I teach them that certain behaviors are not appropriate). I see nothing negative about it. Just basic chinuch.
Preaching and turning tznius into a battle can backfire but I feel regular chinuch whenever it comes up is a responsibility.
So yes, if your seven year old makes a head stand in front of guests and everything is exposed modeling won't help. Mothers usually don't make head stand and kids do. It's appropriate to tell her something then.
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giftedmom
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Today at 8:54 am
| amother Razzmatazz wrote: | This is astonishing. You all do not ever tell your daughters *anything* about tznius and they just are tznius on their own? I would love to know how this happens practically.
This is so different than how I was raised. |
Practically they are constantly lectured by their school, they wear what their friends and family wear, and they have an innate sense of modesty starting at a certain age.
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amother
Aquamarine
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Today at 8:55 am
| amother Razzmatazz wrote: | So at what age would you tell your daughter to cover her knees?
Let's say she's 4 and doing a headstand and there's guests over for the shabbos meal. |
Once they’re 4 I tell them they need to have shorts (which go close to their knee) under their skirts if they want to go upside down.
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amother
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Today at 8:56 am
| amother Razzmatazz wrote: | This is astonishing. You all do not ever tell your daughters *anything* about tznius and they just are tznius on their own? I would love to know how this happens practically.
This is so different than how I was raised. |
What hashkafa?
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amother
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Today at 8:59 am
| giftedmom wrote: | | Practically they are constantly lectured by their school, they wear what their friends and family wear, and they have an innate sense of modesty starting at a certain age. |
I don't rely on my school for my kids chinuch. If a child is selfish I try to teach them to share, if a child is lying I try to teach them to be honest, if a child does something that's inappropriate I teach them basic tznius. It sounds like some mothers are afraid to broach the subject. I'm wondering why.
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giftedmom
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Today at 9:00 am
| amother Lightcyan wrote: | | I don't rely on my school for my kids chinuch. If a child is selfish I try to teach them to share, if a child is lying I try to teach them to be honest, if a child does something that's inappropriate I teach them basic tznius. It sounds like some mothers are afraid to broach the subject. I'm wondering why. |
No fear involved. It just doesn’t come up that they should be untznius to a level that I’d need to intervene. The school and community norms combined with their own sense of modesty is enough.
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amother
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Today at 9:01 am
| amother Aquamarine wrote: | | Once they’re 4 I tell them they need to have shorts (which go close to their knee) under their skirts if they want to go upside down. |
So how do you say that? "Go put on shorts if you want to headstands because...it's not tznius to show your thighs?"
I was raised by BT in mainstream lakewood.
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amother
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Today at 9:50 am
| amother Dimgray wrote: | | Exactly, nobody should be walking around without underwear, whether boys or girls, in front of different or same gender siblings. |
Correct- I tell my boys the same thing. Privacy and tznius.
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