טעמא vs טעמע…. Incorrect matzaiva spelling.. how to fix?

amother

OP ↓

Thu, Nov 28 2024, 9:01 pm

It sounds like the spelling of my grandmothers name has been confused over time… is the א or ע the standard Yiddish way to spell it? Sounds like it was originally טעמע but her matzaiva says טעמא. We asked a rav what to do.
Anyone ever fix a letter on a matzaiva after the fact? What was the process and the cost?

amother

↑ OP ↓

Fri, Nov 29 2024, 7:45 am

amother Bellflower wrote:

Where is it written with an ע? On her כתובה?
I don't know that it's necessary to correct a matzeiva. Ask a rav

We didn’t find her kesuvah. The invitation of her children for their weddings has ע. She didn’t grow up frum and didn’t know how to read Hebrew so the rav said that it should be kept with א and then anyone who should be named after her should be with an א

amother

Rose

Fri, Nov 29 2024, 7:57 am

amother OP wrote:

So why are you trying to change the matzeivah if your Rav said to leave it?

Chayalle ↓

Fri, Nov 29 2024, 8:00 am

What did the Rav say? Does it matter?
FYI my grandfather's name was Menachem Mendel. We have seen that on his Ksuba Mendel is spelled differently than on his Matzeivah. We have a picture of the matzeivah of the person HE was named after, and copied that for his Matzeiva....and later found his ksuba and it's spelled differently.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Fri, Nov 29 2024, 8:09 am

Chayalle wrote:

To spell the name with א as that’s the correct spelling of the name. Anyone named for her should also spell with א. Doesn’t sound like with an ע is really a name

amother

DarkCyan ↓

Fri, Nov 29 2024, 8:13 am

Chayalle wrote:

I have an unusual Yiddish name and I always spelled it how it's spelled on the matzeiva of the person I'm named after. When I was getting married, the mesader kiddushin didn't like that spelling and did some research about the name and asked us to change it for the kesubah. You never know when and why the spelling was changed over the years.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Fri, Nov 29 2024, 8:21 am

amother DarkCyan wrote:

Oh wow. Ok this definitely makes me feel better that א is correct and that it could’ve just been wrong when they got married. They were more modern and may not have know correct Yiddish spelling.

↑ Chayalle ↓

Fri, Nov 29 2024, 8:24 am

amother OP wrote:

To spell the name with א as that’s the correct spelling of the name. Anyone named for her should also spell with א. Doesn’t sound like with an ע is really a name

So your Rav has paskened on the correct spelling of the name.
Maybe my family should ask a Rav how Mendel is spelled (different versions of including the ayin in different places....)

amother

↑ OP ↓

Fri, Nov 29 2024, 8:34 am

Chayalle wrote:

So your Rav has paskened on the correct spelling of the name.
Maybe my family should ask a Rav how Mendel is spelled (different versions of including the ayin in different places....)

Yes we were told טעמא is correct and it’s better that her matzaiva spells it like that rather than what she believed to be correct with an ע

thatworn ↓

Fri, Nov 29 2024, 8:37 am

We have a lot of names spelled with ayin where one would expect an alef (always at the end of the name). It could be that it is just a variation in Yiddish pronunciation. Temeh, rather than Temah. If you say it out loud, you could imagine that people in different shtetlech all over eastern Europe could have different ways of pronouncing, just like, lehavdil, you would hear English names in America pronounced differently in NY or in Alabama. Large area, many different communities. I kept the ayins when naming our children.

↑ thatworn ↓

Fri, Nov 29 2024, 8:41 am

amother OP wrote:

To spell the name with א as that’s the correct spelling of the name. Anyone named for her should also spell with א. Doesn’t sound like with an ע is really a name

It is more of a nickname if spelled with an ayin. Think of the name "Doba". That is the actual name. Dobe is more of a nickname, with different pronunciation. Other nicknames could be Dobka, Dobke, Dobrusha, Dobrushe, Dobrushke, Dobrushka, Dobale, Dobele, ... the endings are a combination of pronunciation differences and nicknames. Some Rabbomin hold that on a matzeiva and kesuba the actual name must be written, so in this case, Doba with an alef would be used (or maybe with a hay in EY).

amother

↑ OP ↓

Fri, Nov 29 2024, 8:46 am

thatworn wrote:

That’s what I was thinking too but it sounds like our rav said it’s important to have the name spelled as the klal spells it so it’s correct and a real name vs the doubt of it could’ve been an ע somewhere at some point.

amother

Mulberry ↓

Fri, Nov 29 2024, 8:46 am

thatworn wrote:

There’s no problem with spelling a name differently on school papers or a matzeivah. The problem is a kesubah and a gett. A kesubah and a gett are legally binding documents in halacha. Spelling the names correctly is very important, especially for a gett. There are sefarim that list the correct spelling of names. When you name your children it’s important to find out the correct spelling of their names so they have no problem going forward when they get married or divorced. Ask your rabbi for the correct spelling of your kids names. It’s not as simple as spelling a name the way you pronounce it or the way you like.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Fri, Nov 29 2024, 8:48 am

amother Mulberry wrote:

Yeah this would make sense which is why the rav said regardless of how my grandmother spelled it, the correct way is א and that’s how it should be spellEd. It has the same Aliyah to the neshama even though it’s א and she spelled it ע