If you are ‘upper class’ how did you make your fortune?

amother

↑ Phlox ↓

Yesterday at 1:55 am

amother Stone wrote:

To me, the most important part of wealth mindset is believing you can and should become wealthy and the actions follow from there.

You live under your means because you want to invest because you believe the investments are going to make you wealthy. You rather have money than the things itt can buy.
You start a career or business with high potential young and work hard at it. You believe you're going to get promoted and make it to the top.
You work long hours and make your career a priority.
You like money. Not just for what it can buy you but for having it. You like learning about money. You like reading books about mutual funds because you like money.
You never cap your income. Your goal is not to make 2 million or 5 million or retire at 50. Your goal is to make it big and then bigger.
You take moderate calculated risks with your money. You know the next risk can help you achieve your goals. So you research well and then take the plunge.
They accumulate "good debt" and stay far away from bad debt. They have a clear understanding of the difference.

Not everyone with this mindset will become wealthy. But almost everyone wealthy shares many of these attitudes.

I'm not passing any value judgments here. The research shows these are common things among people who become wealthy. And they are far less common among people who don't become wealthy.

Most people I know don't want to be wealthy. They want it in theory, like to win the lottery. They want it in convenience, like an unlimited credit card. But they don't have a wealth mindset. Maybe they don't believe they could become wealthy. Maybe they don't believe they should or deserve to becomes wealthy (I know very many in that category.) They may be too risk-averse, or they might be scared to do the proper research and take bad risks. They know they should read up on of the stock market but the thought of that scares them. They make it a low priority. They're not sure they are capable of understanding the stock market or real estate investments. Most people I know either don't prioritize becoming wealthy or have an emotional block to achieving it.

Sounds like my dh but he caps his income. I can never get him to stop saying things like „We will never xyz“ or „We are too old for…“

Otherwise yes

amother

↑ Phlox

Yesterday at 2:10 am

amother Poppy wrote:

Yes I know people like this. They forgot to read koheles.... hakol zeh hevel tachas hashumesh. I wanted to quote some psukim, but I realized I would have to cut and paste the entire koheles...

And yet I know wealthy people who do not have this money mindset, bh. These are the people who are able to enjoy their wealth and give generously to tzedakah... they are not defined by their money.

Sure they must have had generational wealth. OP didn’t specify it but the question is how to build wealth from scratch, not how to „be wealthy“. There are many mindsets that people can have in regards to managing the money they inherited or were gifted. There are not many mindsets with which people can build something out of nothing

amother

Cerise

Yesterday at 4:04 pm

amother Stone wrote:

I agree with this 100%. I am too scared. Having the money in my bank account where I can see it whenever I check my balance...makes me feel secure. Trusting someone enough that they would give me good advice and then trusting myself to invest in sth and maybe losing everything? I can't do it. To me its a "I have it, and its 100% real" vs "I could have so much more but also lose it all". I rather take what I have. Which isnt much, but its enough for the basics.
I had a very turbulent childhood and I am still in survival mode also financially.
Dh decided to invest 700$ after reading and researching for several months and lost most of it. That made my fear even worse. Also our neughbours invested a couple thousand and lost it. They didnt really do research though

amother

↑ Poppy

Yesterday at 6:37 pm

amother Phlox wrote:

I wasn't talking about generational wealth, though of course nowadays that is usually the biggest factor in being wealthy. I was talking about people who got rich on their own, or created another level of wealth.

And I really do urge you to read koheles, there are English translations online, its really eye opening.

amother

↑ Petunia

Yesterday at 6:55 pm

amother Cerise wrote:

That’s because they are investing in extremely risky stocks.
Investing in mutual and index funds and etf over a long period of time is safer and recommended

amother

↑ Stone

Yesterday at 7:15 pm

amother Poppy wrote:

Same author wrote Mishley 30:8
רֵאשׁ וָעֹשֶׁר אַל תִּתֶּן לִי הַטְרִיפֵנִי לֶחֶם חֻקִּי
Basically, don't make me poor and don't make me rich, just give me what I need and no more. Read 30:9 for more insight. And the Mesilas Yeshorim's explanation in his Introduction.

OP wasn't asking if it's wise to become very rich, only how to do so. As I've explained, it comes with a mindset that has pros and cons.

amother

↑ Magenta

Today at 8:21 am

amother Linen wrote:

Do you realize how unkind your language is? From one post, you’ve judged an entire human as causing you to puke, not realizing that Hashem is in control and being “off” as a religious person. I was sharing for those who would be interested in such an approach because it’s working for us. You don’t have to use it or like it, it’s not for everyone. I’m sorry you have a disability but it doesn’t invalidate this approach or make me any less religious.

All businesses have short and long term goals and road maps. Hashem has one for this world to there is nothing wrong with an individual having one as well in all areas of life. Of course, life throws curve balls and those are for us alone to thank Hashem for and adjust, but you should think more about your speech.

P.S. I plan my children based on when I’m strong enough to do more endless IF cycles. One of my dc’s severe illnesses caused us to replan life too. We made aliyah for Hashem alone and that threw a decade longer into this table. One post doesn’t permit judgement on one’s life or anything else. I like planning and mapping, you don’t and that’s ok. Speaking this way is not.

I am very much a planner, responsible and organized. If you reread what I wrote you'll see that I said that the post make me puke, I didn't c'v say you as a person make me want to puke. Nor did I say that you are "off" as a religious person. I didn't and still don't think anything about you.

I was saying that it felt, at least to me, that to be planning things to a level to say that someone will retire at x age with an exact number, I felt like it was leaving gd out of the equation.

I do apologize as I feel like I was judging that you might have been young, and life not thrown you an curveballs, and that I was wrong about. (And it definitely doesn't make me happy that somethings in your life aren't awesome, I truly wish you only the very best.)

My post did not come from a place of jealousy. BH I am mostly okay, my disability would just impact my ability to work, and that's why I brought it up. That I'd never have thought that I'd stop working other than exactly when I decide I want to, but that's not what happened. Same for my husband who ended up retiring in his low 40's, not due to anything terrible, and bh we're okay financially, but it wasn't our plan, nor our preference.

So I guess where I was going with this is, that I think people should work, should save, should be careful with money if that's how they want to live, but to remember that Hashem runs this world and things can happen that we least expected. It does sound like you know that based on your second post. I'm sorry that I hurt your feelings.

amother

↑ Vermilion

Today at 8:57 am

amother Dahlia wrote:

but then when do you enjoy your money and the bounty Hashem gave you?

I can’t speak for her.
But I can speak for myself.

I enjoy what I have bec I don’t have to worry about money and wonder how I will pay for things. I know I can support my kids. Give tzedakah. Etc.

I don’t believe Hashem gave me money to live in a big house, drive fancy cars, buy luxury items, go to Cancun and constantly fight to keep up with the Jones’s. Does it make me happier to drive a Toyota vs a Volvo?. If I think it will, then I will never be happy.

I can’t believe that is my goal to use what Hashem gave me - especially in galus!

amother

↑ Khaki

Today at 9:03 am

amother Magenta wrote:

“If that’s how they want to live”

I find that part of your post to be problematic

It’s not optional to live responsibly and save

Of course some people don’t have money to save but those who do and choose to spend frivolously I believe may be mistaken

It says outright in chazal that people should save and invest

The point of hishtadlus- which includes saving and investing in the future- is to do your part and remember Hashem is in control.

Obviously it’s mistaken for someone to think they are in control, and things can happen even to the most responsible couple that change their plans drastically. But the opposite extreme of not saving for the future is completely antithetical to Torah values for most of us. (Except those living on an extremely high level of emunah which likely translates into very little gashmius ie the Chofetz Chaim’s lesson about a temporary home. You can’t tell me $100 sweatshirts for kids means a person has emunah for the future.)

InnerMe

Today at 9:39 am

amother Stone wrote:

I understand the part about believing yiu can and deserve to be wealthy

But I don't understand why someone would want to have a mindset that the only purpose of money is to make more money like living under your means working long hours etc when you already have enough to be comfortable. How does tons and tons of money accumulating in the bank help someone if they're not actually enjoying only working crazy hard to make more? That isn't wealth. That's being a slave to money. Or maybe it is technically wealth. But to me it seems like a very very poor mindset.

amother

↑ Dahlia

Today at 10:03 am

amother Vermilion wrote:

I hear what you are saying...
I wasn't really referring to luxuries like driving a Lexus.......but there is a big range between that and shopping in second hand stores!!
I'm talking about being regular- shopping in regular (not crazy upscale) clothing stores!
some people spend 3k on a coat...I'm not talking about that...but dressing nicely, in the here and now, could be important also....